China’s state-owned banks have become a main engine of the global recovery. … The surge in Chinese lending, triple the 2008 rate, has provided a lifeline to international corporations. Post Positive news, right? But I hear shades of this famous scene:
"Friends can fight and argue but they are still friends." Mortal enemies can shake hands and have civilized meetings but they're still mortal enemies. I think you have it backwards.
China Bashing vs. US Bashing? In the old days, I posted a question to my Chinese and American friends, and here to all here, can we envision a time when US and China can be friends?Friends can fight and argue but they are still friends. They are NOT trying to kill each other just because they don't like some ideas from others.My view is, there are good people, there are bad people, in any country. Try to learn different views and understand. If you keep on picking on your personal friend, how would he think? Or how would you think if you are on the receiving end? Travel and befriend peoples from other nations and races. It may change our perspectives.America is a great country, because of its openness and courage to correct itself.
- China wouldn’t be the economic powerhouse it is today if it let its currency float.- Their trade practices are hardly free.- They routinely violate the human rights of Chinese citizens.- The environment in China is in exceedingly poor shape.- Environmental laws? What environmental laws?- Labour laws? What labour laws?
your alternative, the usa. where you have guys like george soros who will try to wreck your currency, and just the u.s. govt in general through the transfer of hot money. let the cia come int your country, kidnap whoever, they want, and take them into torture camps in eastern europe, egypt, or thailand. environment? yes, let u.s. mulitnational corporations come into your country, open up sweat shops, pollute YOUR country, and then blame YOU for the pollution. if you dont let them open up sweat shops, then theyll overthrow your government as seen in Indonesia. this is the western style democracy that we try so desprately to spread around the world. labour laws? you mean the labour laws that Jaime Roldós Aguilera Omar Torrijos tried to protect? they paid for it with their lives. unfortunately, u.s. foreign policy does not mix with labour laws, or human rights. check out confessions of an economic hitman if you really want to know how the u.s. gets down. again, if you want to talk about human rights then take a good hard look at what america does to uphold human rights. i guess these american cops who go around tazing people is a perfect example of american style human rights. if america was so concerned about human rights, why do they practice the death penalty? why are you 6 times more likely to end up in prison in usa than you are in china? why are there cops on every corner? why is it that 1 in every 3 black americans have been to jail? do black human rights not count? is america that racist that as long as whites dont get arrested then all is fine? for a country that is SO concerned about human rights, i find it strange that the first thing the americans do when visitors enter the country is to take their finger prints and scan their eyes. i dont know about you but that to me spells a fascist police state. i also love how americans frequently talk about "democracy" as if it actually exists in america. when america stops having wall street appoint their leaders then i might take their sham of an election seriously.
Seriously though, everything America says is mainly hypocritical.
Everything from human rights, to political policies. Don't you think that they are starting to get annoyed by the ignorance and blatant criticisms?
I seriously doubt everyone in China personally feels oppressed... Did you even personally survey? No... That's typical American judgement. So America doesn't have high unemployment rates and social/economic inequality?
It's unjustifiable to criticise a country based on stereotypes and assumptions. It's also unjustifiable to be HYPOCRITICAL.Didn't America also commit many wars, crimes, human rights violations, economic corruptions and genocide during the past 200 years?
Is this pure racism or just political propaganda? The criticisms are not helping at all, just pissing them off.
Joe, you have expressed my thoughts almost word for word in your posts. I feel like most people these days just "go with the flow" with the opinion of the masses without sitting down and thinking about the situation themselves.
You cannot defend China's actions through pointing out the negatives of others. I am fully aware of the terrible acts undertaken in the name of America (as well as most nations to varying degrees). This does not hide the fact that China JUDICIALLY executes thousands of people a year. There is no hiding from that!
This is why I suggested there needs to be a balance met between not aimlessly "China Bashing" (which I know does exist) and yet standing up for some basic values. My worry is that China uses this concept of china bashing to divert attention from its truly horrendous HR record!
Ah yes Hans, ridiculous propaganda against the Chinese should be taken as fact, while the truth about Americans must be ridiculed and dismissed as Communist propaganda.
Corporate brainwashing 101. I wouldn't call a genocidal, slave owning America of the past a "once great society" either, but otherwise you were pretty spot on.
Those "Americans" of which you speak sound like mighty stupid people, gobbling up celebrity gossip, racist journalism and whatnot spoonfed to them by their corporate overlords in order to forget their rampant drug use, prostitution epidemic, and the disintegration of their once-great society. And at the same time, they arrogantly deny their nobler oriental brethren even the weakest of technologies, collectively gloating and reveling in the agony of countless Chinese children, killed by dirty coal.
Pray, truth speaker, tell us more of your marvelous insights into the american psyche, that we may better recognize the lies of the American media cabal and their underhanded dealings with corporations. Pull back the veil that has obscured our eyes for so long, so that we may finally recognize the ugly reality of the world that we live in!
"China executes between 2,000-10,000 people a year (depending on whom you believe because China still hides it figures from public scrutiny as a “state secret”."
and yet America killed millions in Iraq and Sudan by destroying medical facilities and infrastructure.
America has killed more people in Iraq than China could in the last 30 years even if they executed 40,000 people a year.
America has a higher prison population.
Native Americans have a worse quality of life than Tibetan nomads.
etc
it would give more incentive for Chinese consumers to buy US products (if the Chinese government weren’t so protectionist).
Too bad America has several embargoes in place targeting China preventing the transfer of technology, many natural resources and companies to China. America refuses to offer China anything China wants to buy- and as a result, counter-protectionism takes place.
Frankly, the US government has every right to impose sanctions on the Chinese government because they don’t play by the same trade rules everyone else does. Any negative media coverage China receives is likely deserved.
If the US has the right to sanction China, China has the right to toss billions of dollars down the drain and force America and override America-led international embargoes on technologies such as clean coal, which would save hundreds of thousands of lives in China and elsewhere.
However, America's corporate greed and brainwashed cronies will see to it that that doesn't happen.
Can anyone explain to me what good it is doing the US MSM to bash China?
It distracts Americans from their failing schools, imploding infrastructure, disintegrating society, collapsing currency, porous border, swine flu epidemic, deteriorating financial position, shameful health care, overflowing prisons, street and gang crime, rampant drug use and prostitution, immense inequality in the distribution of wealth, and those two wars they're losing horribly.
If it's not China it's Michael Jackson, or Britney Spears, or Tiger Woods. These are corporations, they sell a product, and racist yellow peril journalism sells. Just like celebrity gossip. Americans gobble it up.
Can anyone explain to me what good it is doing the US MSM to bash China? (Aside from having something to write about!) Is bashing them really going to change much, likely not? They are big boys and will do what they want. This is clear in their actions regarding the current trade war with the US. Perhaps the plan is to influence popular support for stupid US trade policy retaliations? I don't know. Would you act differently though if you were in China's position?
Regarding China's politics, is it foolish to not ask how their citizens feel, irrespective of how US citizens view things?
The currency debate is a common one in Canada. Exporters love it when Canada's dollar is low because our exports are relatively cheap to our main market (the US) when it is low. As our dollar moves up in value (currently close to par with the US) it costs exporters in actual sales and the effective value of those sales (exchange rate premium they receive when paid in US dollars).
It's beneficial to importers and those buying imported goods because those goods effectively become cheaper.
Canada's dollar has increased in value because our economy is stronger than that of the US and our debt is lower (proportionally). Also, we're a net oil & energy exporter which, with more expensive oil, also puts upward pressure on our dollar versus the US (net energy importer).
A floating currency balances economies too. If the Chinese currency were more valuable (I've heard estimates that it should be 40% higher, and probably more with the weak economy in the US) it would give more incentive for Chinese consumers to buy US products (if the Chinese government weren't so protectionist).
Frankly, the US government has every right to impose sanctions on the Chinese government because they don't play by the same trade rules everyone else does. Any negative media coverage China receives is likely deserved.
I wouldn't say they are biased against rival nations, but rather rival political factions. The MSM's political faction is international, but does not include American conservative, or Chinese nationalists.
There is a difference between China bashing (criticising China for no obvious reason, or at least disproportionally criticising) and pointing out the obvious. China executes between 2,000-10,000 people a year (depending on whom you believe because China still hides it figures from public scrutiny as a "state secret".
I agree that bias plays a large role in our judgements (otherwise I wouldn't be reading this blog!). But I guess I just found this post kind of vacuous. It identified a bias that probably affects our views and threw out a single piece of incredibly unconvincing "evidence." The only reason Hanson's readers would accept his evidentiary standards here (news about China is bad, therefore news about rival nations is biased) is that they already have other bits of evidence that suggest that his conclusion is correct.
Your comment, in fact, is a case in point. I argued that Hanson's evidence here is poor; you responded by arguing that other evidence suggests that Hanson's conclusion is correct. Exactly! Hanson used silly evidence, when better was available, to argue for a conclusion that is almost certainly true.
GuysI would be concerned if these negative tones vanished over night. Japan was bashed when it was strong not weak (pick historic analogies yourself). Envy is a powerful emotion that escapes no one. NYT and WP are no exception. Check out latest from Paul Krugman. The guy sounds so uncharacteristically dumb when discussing China. If an earthquake were to destroy China for good, the same people would be sympathetic, I imagine. Enjoy it while you can, Brits did a lot of it to the U.S. but they quit a while ago.
"Friends can fight and argue but they are still friends." Mortal enemies can shake hands and have civilized meetings but they're still mortal enemies. I think you have it backwards.
China Bashing vs. US Bashing? In the old days, I posted a question to my Chinese and American friends, and here to all here, can we envision a time when US and China can be friends?Friends can fight and argue but they are still friends. They are NOT trying to kill each other just because they don't like some ideas from others.My view is, there are good people, there are bad people, in any country. Try to learn different views and understand. If you keep on picking on your personal friend, how would he think? Or how would you think if you are on the receiving end? Travel and befriend peoples from other nations and races. It may change our perspectives.America is a great country, because of its openness and courage to correct itself.
- China wouldn’t be the economic powerhouse it is today if it let its currency float.- Their trade practices are hardly free.- They routinely violate the human rights of Chinese citizens.- The environment in China is in exceedingly poor shape.- Environmental laws? What environmental laws?- Labour laws? What labour laws?
your alternative, the usa. where you have guys like george soros who will try to wreck your currency, and just the u.s. govt in general through the transfer of hot money. let the cia come int your country, kidnap whoever, they want, and take them into torture camps in eastern europe, egypt, or thailand. environment? yes, let u.s. mulitnational corporations come into your country, open up sweat shops, pollute YOUR country, and then blame YOU for the pollution. if you dont let them open up sweat shops, then theyll overthrow your government as seen in Indonesia. this is the western style democracy that we try so desprately to spread around the world. labour laws? you mean the labour laws that Jaime Roldós Aguilera Omar Torrijos tried to protect? they paid for it with their lives. unfortunately, u.s. foreign policy does not mix with labour laws, or human rights. check out confessions of an economic hitman if you really want to know how the u.s. gets down. again, if you want to talk about human rights then take a good hard look at what america does to uphold human rights. i guess these american cops who go around tazing people is a perfect example of american style human rights. if america was so concerned about human rights, why do they practice the death penalty? why are you 6 times more likely to end up in prison in usa than you are in china? why are there cops on every corner? why is it that 1 in every 3 black americans have been to jail? do black human rights not count? is america that racist that as long as whites dont get arrested then all is fine? for a country that is SO concerned about human rights, i find it strange that the first thing the americans do when visitors enter the country is to take their finger prints and scan their eyes. i dont know about you but that to me spells a fascist police state. i also love how americans frequently talk about "democracy" as if it actually exists in america. when america stops having wall street appoint their leaders then i might take their sham of an election seriously.
Seriously though, everything America says is mainly hypocritical.
Everything from human rights, to political policies. Don't you think that they are starting to get annoyed by the ignorance and blatant criticisms?
I seriously doubt everyone in China personally feels oppressed... Did you even personally survey? No... That's typical American judgement. So America doesn't have high unemployment rates and social/economic inequality?
It's unjustifiable to criticise a country based on stereotypes and assumptions. It's also unjustifiable to be HYPOCRITICAL.Didn't America also commit many wars, crimes, human rights violations, economic corruptions and genocide during the past 200 years?
Is this pure racism or just political propaganda? The criticisms are not helping at all, just pissing them off.
I agree.
Everything is wrong with China.
In America, nothing is wrong.
Our American society is perfect, in every way. If you deny that, you deserve to be on the electric chair in Texas.
We have never caused any wars or genocide. We cherish human rights, especially black and native American rights in the past 200 years.
For example, in Vietnam, it was China who started the war and pulled out. China was the one who released agent orange on civilians.
China is the greatest evil in the world, next to Muslims and non-socialists.
Joe, you have expressed my thoughts almost word for word in your posts. I feel like most people these days just "go with the flow" with the opinion of the masses without sitting down and thinking about the situation themselves.
You cannot defend China's actions through pointing out the negatives of others. I am fully aware of the terrible acts undertaken in the name of America (as well as most nations to varying degrees). This does not hide the fact that China JUDICIALLY executes thousands of people a year. There is no hiding from that!
This is why I suggested there needs to be a balance met between not aimlessly "China Bashing" (which I know does exist) and yet standing up for some basic values. My worry is that China uses this concept of china bashing to divert attention from its truly horrendous HR record!
Ah yes Hans, ridiculous propaganda against the Chinese should be taken as fact, while the truth about Americans must be ridiculed and dismissed as Communist propaganda.
Corporate brainwashing 101. I wouldn't call a genocidal, slave owning America of the past a "once great society" either, but otherwise you were pretty spot on.
Those "Americans" of which you speak sound like mighty stupid people, gobbling up celebrity gossip, racist journalism and whatnot spoonfed to them by their corporate overlords in order to forget their rampant drug use, prostitution epidemic, and the disintegration of their once-great society. And at the same time, they arrogantly deny their nobler oriental brethren even the weakest of technologies, collectively gloating and reveling in the agony of countless Chinese children, killed by dirty coal.
Pray, truth speaker, tell us more of your marvelous insights into the american psyche, that we may better recognize the lies of the American media cabal and their underhanded dealings with corporations. Pull back the veil that has obscured our eyes for so long, so that we may finally recognize the ugly reality of the world that we live in!
"China executes between 2,000-10,000 people a year (depending on whom you believe because China still hides it figures from public scrutiny as a “state secret”."
and yet America killed millions in Iraq and Sudan by destroying medical facilities and infrastructure.
America has killed more people in Iraq than China could in the last 30 years even if they executed 40,000 people a year.
America has a higher prison population.
Native Americans have a worse quality of life than Tibetan nomads.
etc
it would give more incentive for Chinese consumers to buy US products (if the Chinese government weren’t so protectionist).
Too bad America has several embargoes in place targeting China preventing the transfer of technology, many natural resources and companies to China. America refuses to offer China anything China wants to buy- and as a result, counter-protectionism takes place.
Frankly, the US government has every right to impose sanctions on the Chinese government because they don’t play by the same trade rules everyone else does. Any negative media coverage China receives is likely deserved.
If the US has the right to sanction China, China has the right to toss billions of dollars down the drain and force America and override America-led international embargoes on technologies such as clean coal, which would save hundreds of thousands of lives in China and elsewhere.
However, America's corporate greed and brainwashed cronies will see to it that that doesn't happen.
Can anyone explain to me what good it is doing the US MSM to bash China?
It distracts Americans from their failing schools, imploding infrastructure, disintegrating society, collapsing currency, porous border, swine flu epidemic, deteriorating financial position, shameful health care, overflowing prisons, street and gang crime, rampant drug use and prostitution, immense inequality in the distribution of wealth, and those two wars they're losing horribly.
If it's not China it's Michael Jackson, or Britney Spears, or Tiger Woods. These are corporations, they sell a product, and racist yellow peril journalism sells. Just like celebrity gossip. Americans gobble it up.
Can anyone explain to me what good it is doing the US MSM to bash China? (Aside from having something to write about!) Is bashing them really going to change much, likely not? They are big boys and will do what they want. This is clear in their actions regarding the current trade war with the US. Perhaps the plan is to influence popular support for stupid US trade policy retaliations? I don't know. Would you act differently though if you were in China's position?
Regarding China's politics, is it foolish to not ask how their citizens feel, irrespective of how US citizens view things?
Anon:
The currency debate is a common one in Canada. Exporters love it when Canada's dollar is low because our exports are relatively cheap to our main market (the US) when it is low. As our dollar moves up in value (currently close to par with the US) it costs exporters in actual sales and the effective value of those sales (exchange rate premium they receive when paid in US dollars).
It's beneficial to importers and those buying imported goods because those goods effectively become cheaper.
Canada's dollar has increased in value because our economy is stronger than that of the US and our debt is lower (proportionally). Also, we're a net oil & energy exporter which, with more expensive oil, also puts upward pressure on our dollar versus the US (net energy importer).
A floating currency balances economies too. If the Chinese currency were more valuable (I've heard estimates that it should be 40% higher, and probably more with the weak economy in the US) it would give more incentive for Chinese consumers to buy US products (if the Chinese government weren't so protectionist).
Frankly, the US government has every right to impose sanctions on the Chinese government because they don't play by the same trade rules everyone else does. Any negative media coverage China receives is likely deserved.
I wouldn't say they are biased against rival nations, but rather rival political factions. The MSM's political faction is international, but does not include American conservative, or Chinese nationalists.
There is a difference between China bashing (criticising China for no obvious reason, or at least disproportionally criticising) and pointing out the obvious. China executes between 2,000-10,000 people a year (depending on whom you believe because China still hides it figures from public scrutiny as a "state secret".
I have blogged about it here if you are interested: http://stevehynd.wordpress....
I agree that bias plays a large role in our judgements (otherwise I wouldn't be reading this blog!). But I guess I just found this post kind of vacuous. It identified a bias that probably affects our views and threw out a single piece of incredibly unconvincing "evidence." The only reason Hanson's readers would accept his evidentiary standards here (news about China is bad, therefore news about rival nations is biased) is that they already have other bits of evidence that suggest that his conclusion is correct.
Your comment, in fact, is a case in point. I argued that Hanson's evidence here is poor; you responded by arguing that other evidence suggests that Hanson's conclusion is correct. Exactly! Hanson used silly evidence, when better was available, to argue for a conclusion that is almost certainly true.
GuysI would be concerned if these negative tones vanished over night. Japan was bashed when it was strong not weak (pick historic analogies yourself). Envy is a powerful emotion that escapes no one. NYT and WP are no exception. Check out latest from Paul Krugman. The guy sounds so uncharacteristically dumb when discussing China. If an earthquake were to destroy China for good, the same people would be sympathetic, I imagine. Enjoy it while you can, Brits did a lot of it to the U.S. but they quit a while ago.
DS