A new 8min video echos this year old WSJ article: Imagine you were a state legislator and some folks asked you to pass a law making it a crime to give advice about paint colors and throw pillows without a license. And imagine they told you that the only people qualified to place large pieces of furniture in a room are those who have gotten a college degree in interior design, completed a two-year apprenticeship, and passed a national licensing exam. …
I would like to elaborate on Mtm's response here in regards to hospital design. Often, the architect designs the shape of the building, the structural needs, and of course the overall design. The interior designer comes in to detail the ceiling plans, the materials and finishes used for the flooring (again- non-slip flooring is an issue as well as off-gassing materials), the interior elevations- including the height of ADA toilets (these details include the height of the toilet, the selection of the toilet and whether it meets building code, the height and placement of assisting bars in the toilet rooms, the layout of these toilet rooms to ensure that there is room for a wheelchair to maneuver in these rooms, and many more... just for the toilet room!!), as well as several additional details, such as electrical.
There is a tremendous amount of responsibility put on an interior designer- and we work at less than a teachers' salary and are constantly barraged with ignorant posts such as this one. Lesson of the day? Respect your interior designer and the level of knowledge we hold. We didn't study intensely in the toughest programs in school to be told that we pick paint colors.
To every one of you who claim that all interior designers do is to match colors and select pillows... this is EXACTLY why we need legislation. Because people do not even know what we do and it is WIDELY misunderstood. Interior designers are Interior architects. We are trained in architecture... from the inside out. Architects are trained in structural design, we are trained in interior design.
As an interior designer, I have selected floor tile for ADA accessible ramps complying with building code to meet the proper slip rating coefficient and ensure that when that tile is wet, people with disabilities are not sliding and injuring themselves. I ensure that safety exits are placed within rooms as needed. I understand what materials are appropriate for use vs. those that may be flammable or otherwise unsafe.I do not select pillows. I do not hang pictures. In fact, if I were asked to do so I would fail miserably. I am not a good decorator. I do, however, understand the amount of acoustical material needed in a particular square footage of a gym. I also know how to detail the structure of a window so that it looks the way the architectural designer would like it to look and maintains energy standards per the Leadership for Energy Efficient Design.Please, educate yourselves before shoving your foot in your mouth and completely misinforming others in regards to someone else's profession.
Can I just say...I am in school for Interior Design right now, and having to do a paper on this particular issue. I have only been through one semester of the necessary courses for this degree and I can already argue against your point of view. I am going to keep it short and to the point. My cousin is a licensed Interior Designer and she has to design hospitals. With this job comes SEVERAL codes and regulations that I strongly believe a registered Interior Designer should handle. Would you trust yourself, someone with knowledge on "paint selection and throw pillows", to put those who are disabled and in need of critical care to design the living environment for patients in need of serious help? I would personally want my loved ones to be placed in a hospital where all of the codes have been followed while constructing this environment.
It's very interesting to see the argument against licensing for interior design from an economic perspective. I call myself a renegade interior designer because though I have a degree in it I do not have a license. (Oh, the horror!) I think it is important to learn about building codes and ADA requirements and green design to benefit the health and safety of everyone. No sense in designing a beautiful space made of asbestos and coated in lead paint. Design education is important. But I think that the problem is that unlike in some of the other professions listed, there are too many artificial barriers to employment as a designer. I cannot take a licensing exam until I have worked for a few years for a designer who is licensed, but there are so few of them hiring entry-level designers. They want someone with experience. So I don't have experience because no one will hire me, but no one will hire me because I have no experience. Which is how I ended up selling carpet and furniture for a while.
But now I say screw it. I'm going to call myself a designer anyway and if they want to sue me, take it up with a lawyer. And speaking of lawyers, at least they get to take the bar exam once they get their degree instead of doing some b.s. "apprenticeship" first.
So as someone who is personally affected by these ridiculous laws, I am glad to see that you took the time to use interior design as an example of the useless regulations. Also, you may want to read this report:
Though economists may not do too much about it, there are organizations that challenge licensing laws on a regular basis. The public law organization Institute for Justice (a libertarian outfit) has an Economic Liberty division that mounts legal challenges to these types of licensing laws. (http://www.ij.org/index.php... Lots of interior design, hair-braiding, and florist cases. I know there are some other, smaller organizations that do similar work as well.
You nearly had me until I went over to the ASID website and was greeted with:
"Michael Alin, ASID Executive Director, Gives Video Address on Legislative Priorities for 2009Society pledges legislative support to create more opportunities for designers in a down economy."
and
"How to Report Your CEU Compliance
No course information is required. Simply access your online profile and select “Go to My ASID.” Scroll down to “Report your CEU Compliance,” and you’re all set. The reporting deadline is Dec. 31, 2009, but don’t risk being audited by waiting until the last minute."
Very rigorous, right, this mandatory continuing education requirement - no course information required!
So I went to see what kind of important continuing education is in fact offered for the requirement. I was greeted with this so-important-for-public-safety online class - American Indian Culture, Southwestern Tradition, and Santa Fe Style. Ah yes, you must pay them to learn how tastefully recognize the cultural importance of bleached cow skulls and fake Indian blankets by Ralph Lauren.
Robin's right, this is a scam to keep talented gay men down, and make sure all the others pay the regular dues.
I don't think the analogy to the medical field is as relevant as comparing it to architecture.
As much as I disagree with required licensing for interior designers, there is a very large difference between interior designers and interior decorators. The former needs to understand and be able to successfully apply fire and life safety principles, barrier-free design (e.g. ADA)and many standards and codes that most would assume only architects are required to understand/know. The latter just needs to match colors, fabrics and styles together.
My colleagues tell me that it would just seem silly to make a fuss over this; it is just not a serious topic.
They have a point. What you need is a general anti-licencing rule. Then you can say that no licencing regulation should be passed if it violated that rule.
James D. Miller: While licenses for interior decoration and being a florist are obviously absurd, you say that one can also make a very strong case against mandated licensing for professions such as teachers and doctors. I'm curious to hear why this is so - could you provide a brief summary, or a reference that'd explain it in more detail?
I actually have asked a hair stylist about state licensing. Her opinion was roughly that state-required licensing was absurdly expensive (in Florida). She didn't know why it existed, only that it was just a silly hurdle to be overcome. However, she did feel that regulation and inspection related to hair styling was useful; mostly because regulators looked for proper antiseptics and procedures that keep hair-borne parasites and diseases from being spread. I have no idea how effective or costly these health-related regulators are, but I'm less concerned about them because there are actual economic arguments for their existence.
Someone says that the debate is dominated by nutjobs, I totally agree. Their attitude is like: "See if you have to license doctors and pilots, next the government is going to go after interior designers!!!!!"While this works wonders to reinforce already like minded ideologues that they are right, it doesn't work as a persuasion tool for policy change. Most people would like to think that when they receive a service that involves their life and health that there is some minimum standards backed up by government rules and laws, while they will agree that a botched interior design job should only involve the fashion police... But the absolutist doesn't make this rational argument, they just thump some Hayek tract.
So yes it is a Silly Consensus because it involves Silly people, and to challenge the "consensus" you will find yourself allied with some very silly people.
Robin, I would be glad to sign a petition about this or encourage a professional organization to make an official statement (or sign a petition encouraging an official statement). I'm curious - did the colleagues you spoke with refuse to take even these steps?
Incidentally, does the AEA take official positions on any policy issues? (forgive my ignorance about this!). Which other professional organizations might we appeal to?
Maybe the problem is just that there isn't an obvious official avenue through which to raise these issues. It might be helpful if some official body like the AEA released an annual poll asking economists to weigh in on a range of issues so at least there would be some authoritative place that non-economists could go to see what economists think.
coming down as a discipline against certain kinds of policies
You're not taking into account the distorting effect of the media, which will quite happily represent the entire weight of a discipline versus a few nutjobs as a raging debate on which the jury is still out.
I would like to elaborate on Mtm's response here in regards to hospital design. Often, the architect designs the shape of the building, the structural needs, and of course the overall design. The interior designer comes in to detail the ceiling plans, the materials and finishes used for the flooring (again- non-slip flooring is an issue as well as off-gassing materials), the interior elevations- including the height of ADA toilets (these details include the height of the toilet, the selection of the toilet and whether it meets building code, the height and placement of assisting bars in the toilet rooms, the layout of these toilet rooms to ensure that there is room for a wheelchair to maneuver in these rooms, and many more... just for the toilet room!!), as well as several additional details, such as electrical.
There is a tremendous amount of responsibility put on an interior designer- and we work at less than a teachers' salary and are constantly barraged with ignorant posts such as this one. Lesson of the day? Respect your interior designer and the level of knowledge we hold. We didn't study intensely in the toughest programs in school to be told that we pick paint colors.
To every one of you who claim that all interior designers do is to match colors and select pillows... this is EXACTLY why we need legislation. Because people do not even know what we do and it is WIDELY misunderstood. Interior designers are Interior architects. We are trained in architecture... from the inside out. Architects are trained in structural design, we are trained in interior design.
As an interior designer, I have selected floor tile for ADA accessible ramps complying with building code to meet the proper slip rating coefficient and ensure that when that tile is wet, people with disabilities are not sliding and injuring themselves. I ensure that safety exits are placed within rooms as needed. I understand what materials are appropriate for use vs. those that may be flammable or otherwise unsafe.I do not select pillows. I do not hang pictures. In fact, if I were asked to do so I would fail miserably. I am not a good decorator. I do, however, understand the amount of acoustical material needed in a particular square footage of a gym. I also know how to detail the structure of a window so that it looks the way the architectural designer would like it to look and maintains energy standards per the Leadership for Energy Efficient Design.Please, educate yourselves before shoving your foot in your mouth and completely misinforming others in regards to someone else's profession.
Can I just say...I am in school for Interior Design right now, and having to do a paper on this particular issue. I have only been through one semester of the necessary courses for this degree and I can already argue against your point of view. I am going to keep it short and to the point. My cousin is a licensed Interior Designer and she has to design hospitals. With this job comes SEVERAL codes and regulations that I strongly believe a registered Interior Designer should handle. Would you trust yourself, someone with knowledge on "paint selection and throw pillows", to put those who are disabled and in need of critical care to design the living environment for patients in need of serious help? I would personally want my loved ones to be placed in a hospital where all of the codes have been followed while constructing this environment.
It's very interesting to see the argument against licensing for interior design from an economic perspective. I call myself a renegade interior designer because though I have a degree in it I do not have a license. (Oh, the horror!) I think it is important to learn about building codes and ADA requirements and green design to benefit the health and safety of everyone. No sense in designing a beautiful space made of asbestos and coated in lead paint. Design education is important. But I think that the problem is that unlike in some of the other professions listed, there are too many artificial barriers to employment as a designer. I cannot take a licensing exam until I have worked for a few years for a designer who is licensed, but there are so few of them hiring entry-level designers. They want someone with experience. So I don't have experience because no one will hire me, but no one will hire me because I have no experience. Which is how I ended up selling carpet and furniture for a while.
But now I say screw it. I'm going to call myself a designer anyway and if they want to sue me, take it up with a lawyer. And speaking of lawyers, at least they get to take the bar exam once they get their degree instead of doing some b.s. "apprenticeship" first.
So as someone who is personally affected by these ridiculous laws, I am glad to see that you took the time to use interior design as an example of the useless regulations. Also, you may want to read this report:
Designing Cartels by The Institute for Justice
Though economists may not do too much about it, there are organizations that challenge licensing laws on a regular basis. The public law organization Institute for Justice (a libertarian outfit) has an Economic Liberty division that mounts legal challenges to these types of licensing laws. (http://www.ij.org/index.php... Lots of interior design, hair-braiding, and florist cases. I know there are some other, smaller organizations that do similar work as well.
@Erin
You nearly had me until I went over to the ASID website and was greeted with:
"Michael Alin, ASID Executive Director, Gives Video Address on Legislative Priorities for 2009Society pledges legislative support to create more opportunities for designers in a down economy."
and
"How to Report Your CEU Compliance
No course information is required. Simply access your online profile and select “Go to My ASID.” Scroll down to “Report your CEU Compliance,” and you’re all set. The reporting deadline is Dec. 31, 2009, but don’t risk being audited by waiting until the last minute."
Very rigorous, right, this mandatory continuing education requirement - no course information required!
So I went to see what kind of important continuing education is in fact offered for the requirement. I was greeted with this so-important-for-public-safety online class - American Indian Culture, Southwestern Tradition, and Santa Fe Style. Ah yes, you must pay them to learn how tastefully recognize the cultural importance of bleached cow skulls and fake Indian blankets by Ralph Lauren.
Robin's right, this is a scam to keep talented gay men down, and make sure all the others pay the regular dues.
I don't think the analogy to the medical field is as relevant as comparing it to architecture.
As much as I disagree with required licensing for interior designers, there is a very large difference between interior designers and interior decorators. The former needs to understand and be able to successfully apply fire and life safety principles, barrier-free design (e.g. ADA)and many standards and codes that most would assume only architects are required to understand/know. The latter just needs to match colors, fabrics and styles together.
My colleagues tell me that it would just seem silly to make a fuss over this; it is just not a serious topic.
They have a point. What you need is a general anti-licencing rule. Then you can say that no licencing regulation should be passed if it violated that rule.
Any ideas about what that rule should be?
James D. Miller: While licenses for interior decoration and being a florist are obviously absurd, you say that one can also make a very strong case against mandated licensing for professions such as teachers and doctors. I'm curious to hear why this is so - could you provide a brief summary, or a reference that'd explain it in more detail?
I actually have asked a hair stylist about state licensing. Her opinion was roughly that state-required licensing was absurdly expensive (in Florida). She didn't know why it existed, only that it was just a silly hurdle to be overcome. However, she did feel that regulation and inspection related to hair styling was useful; mostly because regulators looked for proper antiseptics and procedures that keep hair-borne parasites and diseases from being spread. I have no idea how effective or costly these health-related regulators are, but I'm less concerned about them because there are actual economic arguments for their existence.
Someone says that the debate is dominated by nutjobs, I totally agree. Their attitude is like: "See if you have to license doctors and pilots, next the government is going to go after interior designers!!!!!"While this works wonders to reinforce already like minded ideologues that they are right, it doesn't work as a persuasion tool for policy change. Most people would like to think that when they receive a service that involves their life and health that there is some minimum standards backed up by government rules and laws, while they will agree that a botched interior design job should only involve the fashion police... But the absolutist doesn't make this rational argument, they just thump some Hayek tract.
So yes it is a Silly Consensus because it involves Silly people, and to challenge the "consensus" you will find yourself allied with some very silly people.
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Robin, I would be glad to sign a petition about this or encourage a professional organization to make an official statement (or sign a petition encouraging an official statement). I'm curious - did the colleagues you spoke with refuse to take even these steps?
Incidentally, does the AEA take official positions on any policy issues? (forgive my ignorance about this!). Which other professional organizations might we appeal to?
Maybe the problem is just that there isn't an obvious official avenue through which to raise these issues. It might be helpful if some official body like the AEA released an annual poll asking economists to weigh in on a range of issues so at least there would be some authoritative place that non-economists could go to see what economists think.
coming down as a discipline against certain kinds of policies
You're not taking into account the distorting effect of the media, which will quite happily represent the entire weight of a discipline versus a few nutjobs as a raging debate on which the jury is still out.
Silly, Robin? A bouquet of flowers killed my father!