In both male and female demand, sex and looks are complements; all else equal, the better someone looks, the more you want sex with them. In male sex supply, sex and looks seem unrelated; how much sex a man offers has little to do with his looks. In
Women dont need good looks, charm confidence, status, success, intellect, humor or any positive quality to obtain casual sex. They can be painfully mediocre in every aspect and still get laid left and right.
Thats right. Im 29 and a virgin. and never had a girl friend or been in a relationship. And its posts like these that help me to figure out why. Its cuz the girl was dtf and i didnt know the score. And i aint that bad looking either. facebook - willyoubethere.ben@gmail.com
Could it be that women do read the responses butdon't comment.
I check out women's websites hostile or not whentalking about men, but don't respond.
If this Robin Hanson draws ire, anger, or hostility fromthe few women that do respond.
Maybe its the way he his argument(s) that pisses them off.And for those that are pissed off anger just confuses the issue.Just tell the guy where went wrong, better yet you show statstics where R. H. is in error and leave it at that.
I hope this helps both women and men converse more rationally with emotional intelligence as well.
Re: "...is a racist statement. Whether either is true is an empirical question"
I'm not saying its true, not endorsing the ideas (or opposing them), but assuming for the sake of argument that it is, then I would say its not racist. Recognizing the truth should not be called racist or sexist in my opinion. For example saying "men tend to be physically stronger than women", isn't sexist.
Although I am not a feminist any more than any other normal woman, I am offended both by the article and the comments following. I would like to point out the "facts" stated: overweight teenage girls more inclined to have sex and the sexual statistics of college women are not reliable statistics. When surveying sensitive topics among any person, be it sex, religion, etc. people are not inclined to give true answers therefore the statistics are often skewed. I don't think you could base any reliable article on such flimsy arguements. I also think many of the comments here are based on the inability of men to understand women. Men would like to think that women have less sex when they are young because of whatever reasons they can think up in their silly little heads. Maybe the attractive women just don't want to have sex with YOU. ;) I also think that the social stigma branding women as sluts if they even show an iota of liking sex is part of the problem. And don't tell me there isn't a stigma because I have expierienced it first hand. I have had a man who I was actually interested in but never ended up being more than friends (I thought). Apparently one night we had sex (which we didn't) and he told all his friends that I was a slut. ?? So I guess in men's eyes that the desirability of a woman automatically makes her a slut in men's eyes? If you don't believe me, look at the porn industry. How many times in a common porn are women referred to as a slut or whore? Hmm its starting to make me wonder if men secretly are attracted to this for some reason. Perhaps they love and loathe the sexual control we have over them. Many women like sex just as much, maybe more, than many men. We can't help it if we require a little more finesse to satisfy us than it takes to please a man. Believe me, I wish I could have an orgasm in a few minutes.
You are a feminist. Feminists are amusing. Thank you. What you have shown me is a typical overreaction.
Oligopsony, you said:
Women use sex to get relationships, men use relationships to get sex” is a sexist statement, as surely as “compared to whites, blacks are naturally wired to pursue an r-strategy and Asians a K-strategy” is a racist statement. Whether either is true is an empirical question, but let’s not redefine sexist (racist, &c.) to automatically exclude anything you might endorse.
You sound like you've been hit with the politically correct hammer. Please define those things which you have claimed need not be redefined. Judging from your dodge, I think you'll have quite some trouble doing so. Fire away please...
Clarisse, your speculation that binge drinking men also have more sex is supported by the paper. Therefore the paper does not support Robin's suggestion that, women (more than men) use alcohol to excuse their sexual behavior. Kudos to you for pointing this out. That said, I have heard anecdotes which support Robin's story.
> good job reinforcing problematic stereotypes of men by implying that men are always up for sex.
You've exaggerated Hanson's view, but the weaker version "males are less selective about sex than females" is true of humans and almost every other species (the exceptions are elucidating; for example, a male pipefish will nourish eggs in his bloodstream, equalizing the resource investment of males and females, so female pipefish are unusually active in courtship, seeking out males and initiating mating).
Because this conclusion from evolutionary biology (that males are less selective than females) is so widely known, I'm not surprised that Hanson assumes his readers already know it. If you'd like to learn more about evolutionary biology, I recommend The Moral Animal by Robert Wright (it includes discussion of the pipefish); it's also recommended by Eliezer Yudkowsky (find his "bookshelf" page on his website).
Actually, I used to write games professionally. And check out my karma score sometime on LessWrong.com. I think I know a bit about male-dominated conversations and aiming for rationalism. Perhaps my strong reaction occurred because Robin actually is biased and I'm not just being judgmental.
I wouldn’t call him a sexist pig, but it’s deeply ironic how Robin, and so many of his readers, look for bias everywhere but refuse to examine the possibility that they might themselves have a gender bias.
Yeah, this. I've made this point myself before, but never so succinctly!
By focusing on how women (not women and men) require alcohol to have sex, you disappear the fact that men have different sexual preferences at different times.
You complain that I “reinforce problematic stereotypes” and am “hostile to women” because this post hasn’t been blessed by approving female comments.
No, that's not why I'm making the claim. It is, however, a piece of evidence in my support. When I comment on your gender posts here, you (and often, other commenters) insist that I'm biased, hysterical, etc. But if I'm alone in my opinion and you're doing such a great job of describing gender dynamics, then why aren't any women agreeing with you? Or even trying to contribute to the conversation?
I've written posts on masculinity that got hundreds to thousands of interesting, insightful, and open-minded comments from men, and I did it by writing the posts as if I cared what men think and don't want to misrepresent their experience. If you care about getting female feedback on your posts about how women experience the world, I suggest that you make an effort to do the same.
Women dont need good looks, charm confidence, status, success, intellect, humor or any positive quality to obtain casual sex. They can be painfully mediocre in every aspect and still get laid left and right.
Thats right. Im 29 and a virgin. and never had a girl friend or been in a relationship. And its posts like these that help me to figure out why. Its cuz the girl was dtf and i didnt know the score. And i aint that bad looking either. facebook - willyoubethere.ben@gmail.com
Could it be that women do read the responses butdon't comment.
I check out women's websites hostile or not whentalking about men, but don't respond.
If this Robin Hanson draws ire, anger, or hostility fromthe few women that do respond.
Maybe its the way he his argument(s) that pisses them off.And for those that are pissed off anger just confuses the issue.Just tell the guy where went wrong, better yet you show statstics where R. H. is in error and leave it at that.
I hope this helps both women and men converse more rationally with emotional intelligence as well.
Re: "...is a racist statement. Whether either is true is an empirical question"
I'm not saying its true, not endorsing the ideas (or opposing them), but assuming for the sake of argument that it is, then I would say its not racist. Recognizing the truth should not be called racist or sexist in my opinion. For example saying "men tend to be physically stronger than women", isn't sexist.
Although I am not a feminist any more than any other normal woman, I am offended both by the article and the comments following. I would like to point out the "facts" stated: overweight teenage girls more inclined to have sex and the sexual statistics of college women are not reliable statistics. When surveying sensitive topics among any person, be it sex, religion, etc. people are not inclined to give true answers therefore the statistics are often skewed. I don't think you could base any reliable article on such flimsy arguements. I also think many of the comments here are based on the inability of men to understand women. Men would like to think that women have less sex when they are young because of whatever reasons they can think up in their silly little heads. Maybe the attractive women just don't want to have sex with YOU. ;) I also think that the social stigma branding women as sluts if they even show an iota of liking sex is part of the problem. And don't tell me there isn't a stigma because I have expierienced it first hand. I have had a man who I was actually interested in but never ended up being more than friends (I thought). Apparently one night we had sex (which we didn't) and he told all his friends that I was a slut. ?? So I guess in men's eyes that the desirability of a woman automatically makes her a slut in men's eyes? If you don't believe me, look at the porn industry. How many times in a common porn are women referred to as a slut or whore? Hmm its starting to make me wonder if men secretly are attracted to this for some reason. Perhaps they love and loathe the sexual control we have over them. Many women like sex just as much, maybe more, than many men. We can't help it if we require a little more finesse to satisfy us than it takes to please a man. Believe me, I wish I could have an orgasm in a few minutes.
I have a write-up on the physiology behind xenophobia.
http://daedalus2u.blogspot....
The reason some men are sexist pigs is because they are unable to understand women.
Robin, your new blog slogan should be 'don't tell me i'm biased; show me i'm wrong'.
Clarisse Thorn,
You are a feminist. Feminists are amusing. Thank you. What you have shown me is a typical overreaction.
Oligopsony, you said:
Women use sex to get relationships, men use relationships to get sex” is a sexist statement, as surely as “compared to whites, blacks are naturally wired to pursue an r-strategy and Asians a K-strategy” is a racist statement. Whether either is true is an empirical question, but let’s not redefine sexist (racist, &c.) to automatically exclude anything you might endorse.
You sound like you've been hit with the politically correct hammer. Please define those things which you have claimed need not be redefined. Judging from your dodge, I think you'll have quite some trouble doing so. Fire away please...
I like the "less risk-averse" story, though it is probably inconsistent with other measures of risk-aversion.
Why would a woman's unconscious motivations seek to maintain a constant probability of getting pregnant rather than maximizing it?
Clarisse, your speculation that binge drinking men also have more sex is supported by the paper. Therefore the paper does not support Robin's suggestion that, women (more than men) use alcohol to excuse their sexual behavior. Kudos to you for pointing this out. That said, I have heard anecdotes which support Robin's story.
Citation needed.
> good job reinforcing problematic stereotypes of men by implying that men are always up for sex.
You've exaggerated Hanson's view, but the weaker version "males are less selective about sex than females" is true of humans and almost every other species (the exceptions are elucidating; for example, a male pipefish will nourish eggs in his bloodstream, equalizing the resource investment of males and females, so female pipefish are unusually active in courtship, seeking out males and initiating mating).
Because this conclusion from evolutionary biology (that males are less selective than females) is so widely known, I'm not surprised that Hanson assumes his readers already know it. If you'd like to learn more about evolutionary biology, I recommend The Moral Animal by Robert Wright (it includes discussion of the pipefish); it's also recommended by Eliezer Yudkowsky (find his "bookshelf" page on his website).
Actually, I used to write games professionally. And check out my karma score sometime on LessWrong.com. I think I know a bit about male-dominated conversations and aiming for rationalism. Perhaps my strong reaction occurred because Robin actually is biased and I'm not just being judgmental.
I wouldn’t call him a sexist pig, but it’s deeply ironic how Robin, and so many of his readers, look for bias everywhere but refuse to examine the possibility that they might themselves have a gender bias.
Yeah, this. I've made this point myself before, but never so succinctly!
By focusing on how women (not women and men) require alcohol to have sex, you disappear the fact that men have different sexual preferences at different times.
You complain that I “reinforce problematic stereotypes” and am “hostile to women” because this post hasn’t been blessed by approving female comments.
No, that's not why I'm making the claim. It is, however, a piece of evidence in my support. When I comment on your gender posts here, you (and often, other commenters) insist that I'm biased, hysterical, etc. But if I'm alone in my opinion and you're doing such a great job of describing gender dynamics, then why aren't any women agreeing with you? Or even trying to contribute to the conversation?
I've written posts on masculinity that got hundreds to thousands of interesting, insightful, and open-minded comments from men, and I did it by writing the posts as if I cared what men think and don't want to misrepresent their experience. If you care about getting female feedback on your posts about how women experience the world, I suggest that you make an effort to do the same.
Hey, the genders are different, with different goals, and evolutionarry succesful stratigies. (oh man spelling)
Some strategies may be considered sexist. Some may not.
Dont hate the players. Hate the selfish genes.