When San Francisco banned the McDonalds Happy Meal, Adam Ozimek said that illustrated the slippery slope of paternalism; if we’ll ban that, what won’t we ban? Now the US Feds offer a bigger example: The Food and Drug Administration said it had concluded that adding caffeine to alcohol was unsafe and unapproved. … The products … have become a favorite among college students. … Treasury Department officials announced … the companies would be told that the products had been mislabeled and were therefore illegal to be shipped. And the Federal Trade Commission told the companies that marketing the products might violate federal law.
I have been assured by the more devoted conoissuers of the ferrous arts that many musicians display the complexity of Bach. Something a plebian such as yourself could never understand.
The reason the old people don't binge on Irish Coffee is not because of the coffee, but because they are old.
Banning the energy drinks won't stop kids from bingeing on energy drinks with alcohol. The Vodka Red Bull predates four loko, and it seems it will outlast it as well.
So congratulations, petty authoritarians. You've succeeded in making people use containers inefficiently.
We have been picking up speed for quite some time. The real question now is, How does the slope bottom out? A gradual run-out, it just keeps going, a brick wall, or drop off a precipice?
I just saw this on HN; a "Native American" nutjob gets Brave new World removed from a high school reading list, and the "educators" seem to be apologizing and sucking up rather than resisting.
It means that the old man, the café, and the corretto must compete with the frat party. And, human nature being what it is, the frat party will win.
unfortunately, you can't "parent" people out of their need for experience. telling a teenager that "drinking is bad" is not going to eliminate their drive to try it for themselves. humans learn from mistakes. trying to enforce our way out of this habit would take away part of the human-ness that is essential in creating the beautiful things. granted, some mistakes are tragic. we'd all like to see a world without tragedy, but that would probably take away some of the beauty as well.
Both the idea for this ban and the idea for the happy meal ban appear to have originated in the CSPI, which does not seem to be an organ of the stupid low class, but rather seems to be an organ of the smart high class. Going back as far through my own aggregator as I can on the subject of caffeine+alcohol, I find this entry at The Agitator dated Dec. 2008. Quoting a CSPI mail:
Greetings, Earlier this year CSPI threatened to sue MillerCoors and Anheuser-Busch for the marketing of their respective alcoholic “energy” drinks. These drinks are dangerous, because the caffeine masks the effects of the alcohol—drinkers may not feel impaired, but they are. We were pleased that Anheuser-Busch agreed to pull its products from the market.And delving further:
A 2008 study by the Center for Science in the Public Interest showed that 10 out of 12 meals that came with toys exceeded the recommended caloric limits for children noted Santa Clara county Supervisor Ken Yeager, who champions the ban.and in June 2010:
CSPI to Sue McDonald's If It Continues Using Toys to Market Junk Food to ChildrenWikipedia informs us that:
CSPI is headed by Michael F. Jacobson, who founded the group in 1971 along with James Sullivan and Albert FritschAs for Michael Jacobson, he:
holds a Ph.D. in microbiology from Massachusetts Institute of TechnologyInteresting fact:
It was Jacobson who coined the now widely used phrases "junk food"[3] and "empty calorie".He doesn't seem to me to be a typical member of "the poorer, less educated, stupider, and those who identify as lower-class."
Four Loko is between 12 and 20 proof depending on which flavor you buy. That's pretty weak actually when compared to rum or whiskey, and a far cry from the levels you're quoting.
It's nice that these things - Happy Meals and the drinks - are getting so much attention.
However, the restrictions on every day food products is much more alarming. Raw milk comes to mind, but there's a real legislative war against people that don't want to eat strictly out of the supermarket.
Google s.510. If this thing passes it could technically be illegal to sell some vegetables out of your own garden to a neighbor or at the farmer's market.
The so called slippery slope is well behind us already.
I discussed the topic today with two classes of 30 students each. No student said they supported the ban. I also tend to think of weed as something better liked by the more educated.
Yeah, a middlebrow reader can detect its perfectness, and so it either fails as pro-libertarian reverse psychology, or possibly succeeds as anti-libertarian reverse-reverse-psychology.
My college student son assures me caffeine doesn’t keep kids from knowing they are drunk, and it is easier to track drinking with a few big cans than with lots of little shots; they usually limit themselves to one or two cans a night.
That's not saying much. Two cans of Four Loko has the alcohol content of ~10 shots of liquor (or two bottles of wine) and ten cups of coffee. That's quite a bit to have in one night.
Those who want to binge can do so just as easily without the cans
Yes, it wouldn't take that much more determination to down five shots and a pot of coffee compared to chugging a can of Four Loko. But the fact is, form factor affects behavior quite a bit. There's a reason why hard liquor is not generally sold in 8oz cans.
Only a man with zero class would choose iOS over Android. iOS is your fizzy drinks. Android is my gin, my whisky, and my wine.
Yes ban alcohol when it's sold with caffine, stupid. But still allow the sale of alcohol with caffine in a bar. Real stupid.
Stop trying to control people central government.
I have been assured by the more devoted conoissuers of the ferrous arts that many musicians display the complexity of Bach. Something a plebian such as yourself could never understand.
Or alternately figuring out where Prohibition went wrong in enforcing an alcohol ban and use it.
Are you asserting that it matters?
The reason the old people don't binge on Irish Coffee is not because of the coffee, but because they are old.
Banning the energy drinks won't stop kids from bingeing on energy drinks with alcohol. The Vodka Red Bull predates four loko, and it seems it will outlast it as well.
So congratulations, petty authoritarians. You've succeeded in making people use containers inefficiently.
Forgot the links
the original newspaper article: http://blogs.seattleweekly....
The 260 comment (and still growing) HN entry: http://news.ycombinator.com...
We have been picking up speed for quite some time. The real question now is, How does the slope bottom out? A gradual run-out, it just keeps going, a brick wall, or drop off a precipice?
I just saw this on HN; a "Native American" nutjob gets Brave new World removed from a high school reading list, and the "educators" seem to be apologizing and sucking up rather than resisting.
It means that the old man, the café, and the corretto must compete with the frat party. And, human nature being what it is, the frat party will win.
unfortunately, you can't "parent" people out of their need for experience. telling a teenager that "drinking is bad" is not going to eliminate their drive to try it for themselves. humans learn from mistakes. trying to enforce our way out of this habit would take away part of the human-ness that is essential in creating the beautiful things. granted, some mistakes are tragic. we'd all like to see a world without tragedy, but that would probably take away some of the beauty as well.
Both the idea for this ban and the idea for the happy meal ban appear to have originated in the CSPI, which does not seem to be an organ of the stupid low class, but rather seems to be an organ of the smart high class. Going back as far through my own aggregator as I can on the subject of caffeine+alcohol, I find this entry at The Agitator dated Dec. 2008. Quoting a CSPI mail:
Greetings, Earlier this year CSPI threatened to sue MillerCoors and Anheuser-Busch for the marketing of their respective alcoholic “energy” drinks. These drinks are dangerous, because the caffeine masks the effects of the alcohol—drinkers may not feel impaired, but they are. We were pleased that Anheuser-Busch agreed to pull its products from the market.And delving further:
A 2008 study by the Center for Science in the Public Interest showed that 10 out of 12 meals that came with toys exceeded the recommended caloric limits for children noted Santa Clara county Supervisor Ken Yeager, who champions the ban.and in June 2010:
CSPI to Sue McDonald's If It Continues Using Toys to Market Junk Food to ChildrenWikipedia informs us that:
CSPI is headed by Michael F. Jacobson, who founded the group in 1971 along with James Sullivan and Albert FritschAs for Michael Jacobson, he:
holds a Ph.D. in microbiology from Massachusetts Institute of TechnologyInteresting fact:
It was Jacobson who coined the now widely used phrases "junk food"[3] and "empty calorie".He doesn't seem to me to be a typical member of "the poorer, less educated, stupider, and those who identify as lower-class."
Um, you're not reading things correctly.
Four Loko is between 12 and 20 proof depending on which flavor you buy. That's pretty weak actually when compared to rum or whiskey, and a far cry from the levels you're quoting.
It's nice that these things - Happy Meals and the drinks - are getting so much attention.
However, the restrictions on every day food products is much more alarming. Raw milk comes to mind, but there's a real legislative war against people that don't want to eat strictly out of the supermarket.
Google s.510. If this thing passes it could technically be illegal to sell some vegetables out of your own garden to a neighbor or at the farmer's market.
The so called slippery slope is well behind us already.
I think you misread the caffeine content.
I discussed the topic today with two classes of 30 students each. No student said they supported the ban. I also tend to think of weed as something better liked by the more educated.
Yeah, a middlebrow reader can detect its perfectness, and so it either fails as pro-libertarian reverse psychology, or possibly succeeds as anti-libertarian reverse-reverse-psychology.
My college student son assures me caffeine doesn’t keep kids from knowing they are drunk, and it is easier to track drinking with a few big cans than with lots of little shots; they usually limit themselves to one or two cans a night.
That's not saying much. Two cans of Four Loko has the alcohol content of ~10 shots of liquor (or two bottles of wine) and ten cups of coffee. That's quite a bit to have in one night.
Those who want to binge can do so just as easily without the cans
Yes, it wouldn't take that much more determination to down five shots and a pot of coffee compared to chugging a can of Four Loko. But the fact is, form factor affects behavior quite a bit. There's a reason why hard liquor is not generally sold in 8oz cans.
Well, Hannah Montana needs to go, for sure. I don't know about Android. But Twilight gets the axe.