Based on a previous study … that elicited … personal accounts of sexual motivations … Meston, a sexual psychophysiologist, and Buss, an evolutionary psychologist compiled a list of 237 distinct [sex] motivations … In researching the [2009] book [
I am shocked too. In Italy we still believe women have a higher moral status. So the feminists tell us (women are not as violent, selfish, self-centered, self-interested - etc. - as men are. "Yes they care."). I'll wait for the book to be published here and see what happens.diaRoma, Italy
I just want to comment on your defensive posture of economics, vis-a-vis the primacy of selfishness. It seems to me you are getting hung up on an unimportant issue of semantics.
People do things, which some people would call "altruistic" or "charitable," about which I think your perspective is (and I would agree) that these motives can really be seen as selfish, because of psychological and social rewards.
Now comes along the person who says the problem with economics is it only looks at selfish incentives. Well, either this person is ignorant about what is being taken into account in the economical analysis in question, or they are effectively saying they think the analysis fails to give enough weight to those incentives associated with subtle things like psychological and social rewards. That's a proper economic criticism (though of course it might be factually incorrect), just not using the right words.
The biological reason women want 'intimacy' with men is to emotionally bind the male provider/defender to them for the extended periods of time necessary for child rearing. If the 'intimacy' is not good enough or the providing/defending is subpar, the women will seek provider replacement by forging new intimacy relationships. Women are notoriously willing to 'trade up'.
The reason men want 'intimacy' with women is to emotionally bind the female to them for the short period of time necessary to impregnate them. If the 'intimacy' is good enough and the male is at that point of their life that settling down makes sense, they may also be willing to commit for the longer time needed to rear children, and seek fertile females. Men are notoriously willing to 'trade younger'.
The ability of men to form attachments to their own children is the glue that holds families together. The intimacy between the father and mother is vulnerable and often weakens over time, and is subject to replacement. This is why women are instinctively driven to look for someone who appears will make a "good father". This is why couples stay together "for the children".
Several modern developments have disrupted these stereotypes: birth control, goverment welfare, rule of law that provides a generically safer society for raising children without a dedicated male defender, paternity testing, child support orders. You can probably think of others.
Why is the title/topic female sex is selfish when the men's reasons are pretty much the same? Shouldn't it be sex is selfish?
The altruistic reason is #10 for men & #11 for women it's not that big of a difference.
Plus women have #4 I wanted to show my affection the the person, #5 I wanted to express my love for the person, and #9 I realized I was in love.While men only have #5 I wanted to show my affection to the person & #8 I wanted to express my love to the person. Showing affection and expressing love through sex apparently is higher on the list for women than men. Emotional intimacy is also higher on the list for women than men considering it's #12 for women and #14 for men.
Men1. I was attracted to the person 2. It feels good 3. I wanted to experience the physical pleasure 4. It’s fun 5. I wanted to show my affection to the person 6. I was sexually aroused and wanted the release 7. I was ‘‘horny’’ 8. I wanted to express my love for the person 9. I wanted to achieve an orgasm. 10. I wanted to please my partner 11. The person’s physical appearance turned me on 12. I wanted the pure pleasure 13. I was ‘‘in the heat of the moment’’ 14. I desired emotional closeness (i.e., intimacy) 15. It’s exciting, adventurous
Women1. I was attracted to the person 2. I wanted to experience the physical pleasure 3. It feels good 4. I wanted to show my affection to the person 5. I wanted to express my love for the person 6. I was sexually aroused and wanted the release 7. I was ‘‘horny’’ 8. It’s fun 9. I realized I was in love 10. I was ‘‘in the heat of the moment’’ 11. I wanted to please my partner 12. I desired emotional closeness (i.e., intimacy) 13. I wanted the pure pleasure 14. I wanted to achieve an orgasm 15. It’s exciting, adventurous
In this case, I'm not sure that's the direction it would go in. My assumption would be that hetero men would most like to think of women as having sex for sexually selfish reasons (for sexual pleasure), rather than for "altruistic" reasons that cash out to meretricious consideration for nonsexual male services/status/monetary support.
I would expect women to overreport the selfishness of our sexual motivations, in other words, while underreporting selfishness in other domains.
I do somewhat distrust self-described motivations. But in general we expect the bias to be toward down playing selfishness. So I find it striking that even self-descriptions are primarily selfish.
I always wonder about the value of such self-reported data like this, especially about motivation, and even more especially about sexual motivation. It is axiomatic (and I think Hanson would agree) that people are not always aware of their true motivations. They may disguise them from others and from their selves as well. Freud spun an entire psychology out of this, and he was not entirely off-base.
It's really great that people are sharing this infoartimon.
I am shocked too. In Italy we still believe women have a higher moral status. So the feminists tell us (women are not as violent, selfish, self-centered, self-interested - etc. - as men are. "Yes they care."). I'll wait for the book to be published here and see what happens.diaRoma, Italy
I just want to comment on your defensive posture of economics, vis-a-vis the primacy of selfishness. It seems to me you are getting hung up on an unimportant issue of semantics.
People do things, which some people would call "altruistic" or "charitable," about which I think your perspective is (and I would agree) that these motives can really be seen as selfish, because of psychological and social rewards.
Now comes along the person who says the problem with economics is it only looks at selfish incentives. Well, either this person is ignorant about what is being taken into account in the economical analysis in question, or they are effectively saying they think the analysis fails to give enough weight to those incentives associated with subtle things like psychological and social rewards. That's a proper economic criticism (though of course it might be factually incorrect), just not using the right words.
Here is what I believe...
The biological reason women want 'intimacy' with men is to emotionally bind the male provider/defender to them for the extended periods of time necessary for child rearing. If the 'intimacy' is not good enough or the providing/defending is subpar, the women will seek provider replacement by forging new intimacy relationships. Women are notoriously willing to 'trade up'.
The reason men want 'intimacy' with women is to emotionally bind the female to them for the short period of time necessary to impregnate them. If the 'intimacy' is good enough and the male is at that point of their life that settling down makes sense, they may also be willing to commit for the longer time needed to rear children, and seek fertile females. Men are notoriously willing to 'trade younger'.
The ability of men to form attachments to their own children is the glue that holds families together. The intimacy between the father and mother is vulnerable and often weakens over time, and is subject to replacement. This is why women are instinctively driven to look for someone who appears will make a "good father". This is why couples stay together "for the children".
Several modern developments have disrupted these stereotypes: birth control, goverment welfare, rule of law that provides a generically safer society for raising children without a dedicated male defender, paternity testing, child support orders. You can probably think of others.
Why is the title/topic female sex is selfish when the men's reasons are pretty much the same? Shouldn't it be sex is selfish?
The altruistic reason is #10 for men & #11 for women it's not that big of a difference.
Plus women have #4 I wanted to show my affection the the person, #5 I wanted to express my love for the person, and #9 I realized I was in love.While men only have #5 I wanted to show my affection to the person & #8 I wanted to express my love to the person. Showing affection and expressing love through sex apparently is higher on the list for women than men. Emotional intimacy is also higher on the list for women than men considering it's #12 for women and #14 for men.
Men1. I was attracted to the person 2. It feels good 3. I wanted to experience the physical pleasure 4. It’s fun 5. I wanted to show my affection to the person 6. I was sexually aroused and wanted the release 7. I was ‘‘horny’’ 8. I wanted to express my love for the person 9. I wanted to achieve an orgasm. 10. I wanted to please my partner 11. The person’s physical appearance turned me on 12. I wanted the pure pleasure 13. I was ‘‘in the heat of the moment’’ 14. I desired emotional closeness (i.e., intimacy) 15. It’s exciting, adventurous
Women1. I was attracted to the person 2. I wanted to experience the physical pleasure 3. It feels good 4. I wanted to show my affection to the person 5. I wanted to express my love for the person 6. I was sexually aroused and wanted the release 7. I was ‘‘horny’’ 8. It’s fun 9. I realized I was in love 10. I was ‘‘in the heat of the moment’’ 11. I wanted to please my partner 12. I desired emotional closeness (i.e., intimacy) 13. I wanted the pure pleasure 14. I wanted to achieve an orgasm 15. It’s exciting, adventurous
I'm amazed boredom didn' t make that list, either for men or women.
Economists think they figured this out?
that is a good point sister y.
In this case, I'm not sure that's the direction it would go in. My assumption would be that hetero men would most like to think of women as having sex for sexually selfish reasons (for sexual pleasure), rather than for "altruistic" reasons that cash out to meretricious consideration for nonsexual male services/status/monetary support.
I would expect women to overreport the selfishness of our sexual motivations, in other words, while underreporting selfishness in other domains.
I do somewhat distrust self-described motivations. But in general we expect the bias to be toward down playing selfishness. So I find it striking that even self-descriptions are primarily selfish.
I always wonder about the value of such self-reported data like this, especially about motivation, and even more especially about sexual motivation. It is axiomatic (and I think Hanson would agree) that people are not always aware of their true motivations. They may disguise them from others and from their selves as well. Freud spun an entire psychology out of this, and he was not entirely off-base.
So, Hanson understated his case?
If so, then that would provide more confirmation of the self-interest assumption and thus strengthen Hanson's argument.
I think it has always been suspected.
I am shocked to hear that women are self-interested agents. This is an astonishing discovery that will revolutionize 19th century psychology.
Personal experience. If women have only had sex with you for altruistic reasons, then you think that all sex is that way.