Discussion about this post

User's avatar
Overcoming Bias Commenter's avatar

Robin,

Grant, it find it unlikely that people really only dislike hearing about their low status, rather than being low status, but I'm open to data on the subject. And why can't we say for any preference people have that they really only want to believe that their preference has been satisfied? That is, how does this argument apply with any extra force to status?I think it applies with extra force to status because there is no objective measure of status. That is, there is no scoreboard of status ranking everyone can see. Unless there are actual status competitions, people's internal ordinal status rankings (if they even have any; I'm not sure I do for a lot of people) can be totally mis-matched from reality ('reality' being whatever results would come of status competitions).

Status competitions seem to be considered especially rude or childish when they are among friends or peers. People who think they will loose status competitions obviously don't want to, and may leave their social group if they feel their status has been lowered. People who think they may win status competitions may not be so adverse to them, but they may not want to loose friends or colleagues who may stop associating with them if they are humiliated.

Coupled with status competitions being negative-sum for other reasons, I think status prudishness is very rational. In a more tribal environment where people couldn't simply go somewhere else and associate with another group of people, they may have made more since. If that environment a humiliated opponent had no choice but to remain in the tribe.

I don't have any empirical data, only the anecdotes I've observed.

Expand full comment
Overcoming Bias Commenter's avatar

Robin, agreed, but doesn't alter my point. In many cases a behavior is a status signal, then is taken up by all, but the low status do it less well (which was why it signaled status to begin with). e.g. cars show status as rich have them -> everyone gets them, but poor people still have shoddier ones. Gifts are another e.g. Similarly everyone in a culture must be prudish once it begins, but the high status do it better. Those who do it worse in a given culture aren't less prudish, they are less successful at demonstrating status under those conditions. Gossip skills aren't less useful, they've just got so good more people can't, or have better things to do than, participate. They become lower status, not less influenced by the ranking of those around them, or their own behavior.

Are you sure there are female societies which don't revolve around rumor-mongering? Even the male ones I know of seem to.

Are you arguing that the relative status of people who are close in status are determined by elites more than elsewhere, or that this detail of status competition has disappeared somewhat, leaving differences between larger groups (that elites might bother to differentiate between) to make up more of a person's status (without this kind of activity increasing)?

When you say 'delegate', do you mean in any conscious way or just by default?

Frelkins, if elites control the status of whole groups by any means that seems irrelevant to the issue of who determines status between closer people who share the same groups and would in other societies be participating in ranking one another, which is what I thought we were talking about - I may have misunderstood. Accidental status determiners also seem irrelevant here, as they would apply in all societies.

Expand full comment
29 more comments...

No posts