Celestis, Inc. says it did: the first ever private launch into outer space (1982), the first private, post-cremation memorial spaceflight (1997), the first lunar burial (1999) Its prices range from $12,500, for standard service to put “one gram of cremated remains, first priority, into deep space,” to $40,000 for “preferred services” to put “seven grams of cremated remains, first priority, into deep space.” They
Curious's reply suggests he doesn't get the point of his own comment. The issue isn't that people divorce their partner for purchasing a product that doesn't work. You're right that that is not a good explanation for cryonics divorces. However, you tried to explain the differing adoption rates of cryonics and space burial as a result of marital pressure. But there are lots of simpler more obvious explanations for the different adoption rates, the most obvious one being that customers know space burial works. It also isn't that different from regular burial. It is a little eccentric but probably near universally regarded as a romantic and acceptable burial service. As such it is likely that men as well as women would find space burial more pleasant than cryonics. Therefore it is plausible the fast adoption rate of space burial is just due to more men liking it than like cryonics.
It isn't clear to me why this is a meaningful comparison. One is a burial service the other is an attempt at not dying. All the reasons people don't adopt cryonics apply save the cost issue.
And btw I'd like to see some evidence that space burial customers are "probably just as tech nerdy" as cryonics patients. My gut reaction is that space burial customers are probably just absurdly rich more than they are tech nerdy. I imagine plenty of people who don't read science fiction would still think getting rocketed out into space is still a bad ass way to go.
There is a misconception that most people signed up for cryonics are techno-nerds. This characterization is accurate of those, the activists, who are actively involved in the cryonics organizations themselves. However, most of the rank and file members are not techno-nerds at all and they almost never have any involvement with the day-to-day operation of the cryonics organizations.
For example, Alcor cryopreserved a retired television repair shop owner on the day Robert Heinlein died in May of 1988. This guy was not a techno-nerd at all.
Check out "The Door into Nowhere" by Mike Darwin on "page 16" of the following text link:
You do not have to be a techno-nerd to want the open unlimited future. I think everyone who has commented on cryonics here should read this document. I think it provides insight into character.
Luke, good observation re. artistic types. I can certainly see someone being intrigued by (or at least "okay with") the notion of cryonics on the basis of it being an aesthetically interesting proposition. I am now actively curious as to whether anyone has signed up for cryonics as a "performance art" move!
I think a person can be an artistic/social personality type and still embrace cryonics, if they are well-rounded enough. My wife is a good example of this. She likely wouldn't have thought to do it on her own, but being married to me made it seem interesting enough, and she says cremation and burial are creepy. Mainly it is her way of signalling to me that she wants to share my interests and hopefully see the future with me. (She isn't much interested in the head-only option though.)
Unfortunately for smart men, "nerdy" (Intellectually interesting, rational and generally not just a tits/ass-value-proposition) girls are rare. Even at Cambridge University there were few intellectually interesting women.
You're right about transhumanist blogs getting boring though. In fact, its always been just a tiny subset of nerds, and I realize now that virtually no one cares, the status of nerds in society in general is just so low. To be honest, I could freeze myself right now and cryo-sleep probably wouldn't that much more boring that pre-Singularity life in general.
The 'PUA' next to my name indicates a new career since my retirement from transhumanism - a comprehensive reserch project to understand that other great mystery of universe - women - this will require detailed 'hands on' empirical investigation.
Meanwhile, to avoid further yawns I think I'll only come back to transhumanism when SAI (Super Artificial Intelligence) comes into existence and immediately hacks both 'Overcoming Bias' and 'Less Wrong' - now that will be exciting. With the coming of SAI I look forward to a steady stream of new content on these blogs, uninterrupted kick-arse insights into the deepest secrets of reality, combined with an endless stream of virtual hot chicks.
I think that the "yuck factor," and jealously may not be the only issues:
If you don't believe in cryonics, you feel that your loved one is being scammed; so some reactions are "protective" as opposed to jealous emotional responses.It still requires a lot of money, that could be used otherwise; if you don't believe that cryonics is currently viable, why would you spend twice as much? Even if the person is very rich there is a sense of the "dead" (I'm not going to split hairs) stealing from the living. We're hardwired to avoid apparent waste.......cryopreservation is a more rational choice that sending your ashes out to space, but maybe women's view on cryogenics are a result of cognitive differences that result in different evaluations of the probabilities of success (and the utility balance of it.)"even a woman" figured this out.
anon’s system seems workable. Immortality as the general rule, and anyone who wants a child must agree to die after that child reaches a certain age, at which time they transfer all their assets to that child.
So I presume you are only referring to female partners (or "wives" as the case may be) who aren't geeks or nerds themselves? Because as a nerdy female (happily partnered to a nerdy guy) who can think of at least three other non-cryonics-hostile nerdy females off the top of my head, I find it rather bizarre that a geek woman partnered to a geek man would leave him over something like cryonics. Maybe these men referred to in the original post are just focusing on the wrong things in selecting partners, when they'd be better off seeking out nerdier women.
You might note that there is a difference between being able to handle something and being able to imagine it. I think most people would be able to handle a lot more change than they can (or are willing to) imagine handling.
If a young married woman had a terminal disease, would she object if her husband didn't plan to kill himself after she died? What if he also had a potentially fatal disease and was having it treated? The latter is similar to cryo in that he's taking definite action (not just abstaining from suicide) to reach a future without her, and probably with other women. What would we think of her if she did demand her husband forgo treatment?
So, you have utter contempt for the Europeans who decided not to be among the colonizers of America because the separation from their familiar world would be too hard for them to bear?
Having thought about this for a while, I've decided that people who cannot handle separation from familiarity really are pansies.
I moved from my home town to SoCal when I graduated from college at age 22. It was a big change for me. Even thought both places are in the same country, there still was "culture shock" for me. I adapted, overcame, and improvised and created a new life for my self with new friends. This is also where I got into the life extension/cryonics/space development milieu.
Later, I ended up in Japan at a time I never expected to live outside the U.S. I mean, until I actually went to Japan, the very thought of living in a society like Japan was completely alien to me. Talk about culture shock. As with the previous case I adapted, overcame, and improvised and created a new life for my self with new friends. I also met my wife in Japan as well.
So, yeah, I consider the ability to have the adaptability to uproot oneself and to create a entirely new life for oneself as a fundamental personal survival skill.
"I would want to make sterilization of all people mandatory. I think this could be easily arranged. Just put birth control in the water supply along with the fluoridation."Hey wait a minute! Some of we childfree are traditionalists, and have used the safe, proven, technology of vasectomy rather than ingesting hormones from the water supply. :)
So, you have utter contempt for the Europeans who decided not to be among the colonizers of America because the separation from their familiar world would be too hard for them to bear?
No I don't. But those that cannot handle such separation have no business criticizing the choices of those that can.
Time for a pep talk in the form of some lyrics from Queen ("Princes of the Universe")http://www.youtube.com/watc...
"We're the princes of the universe Here we belong, fighting to survive In a world with the darkest powers, heh" ..."I am immortal, I have inside me blood of kings - yeah - yeah "..."I'm a man that will go far Fly the moon and reach for the stars With my sword and head held high Got to pass the test first time - yeah"
"One dream one soul, one prizeOne goal, one golden glance of what should beIt’s a kind of magicOne shaft of light that shows the wayNo mortal man can win this day"..."The waiting seems eternityThe day will dawn of sanityIs this a kind of magic?It's a kind of magicThere can be only one"..."This rage that lasts a thousand yearsWill soon be, will soon beWill soon be done"
Cryonics represents failure. Even the immortals ("Highlander") warn that: "If your head separates from your body, it's over".
Curious's reply suggests he doesn't get the point of his own comment. The issue isn't that people divorce their partner for purchasing a product that doesn't work. You're right that that is not a good explanation for cryonics divorces. However, you tried to explain the differing adoption rates of cryonics and space burial as a result of marital pressure. But there are lots of simpler more obvious explanations for the different adoption rates, the most obvious one being that customers know space burial works. It also isn't that different from regular burial. It is a little eccentric but probably near universally regarded as a romantic and acceptable burial service. As such it is likely that men as well as women would find space burial more pleasant than cryonics. Therefore it is plausible the fast adoption rate of space burial is just due to more men liking it than like cryonics.
It isn't clear to me why this is a meaningful comparison. One is a burial service the other is an attempt at not dying. All the reasons people don't adopt cryonics apply save the cost issue.
And btw I'd like to see some evidence that space burial customers are "probably just as tech nerdy" as cryonics patients. My gut reaction is that space burial customers are probably just absurdly rich more than they are tech nerdy. I imagine plenty of people who don't read science fiction would still think getting rocketed out into space is still a bad ass way to go.
There is a misconception that most people signed up for cryonics are techno-nerds. This characterization is accurate of those, the activists, who are actively involved in the cryonics organizations themselves. However, most of the rank and file members are not techno-nerds at all and they almost never have any involvement with the day-to-day operation of the cryonics organizations.
For example, Alcor cryopreserved a retired television repair shop owner on the day Robert Heinlein died in May of 1988. This guy was not a techno-nerd at all.
Check out "The Door into Nowhere" by Mike Darwin on "page 16" of the following text link:
http://www.alcor.org/cryoni...
You do not have to be a techno-nerd to want the open unlimited future. I think everyone who has commented on cryonics here should read this document. I think it provides insight into character.
Luke, good observation re. artistic types. I can certainly see someone being intrigued by (or at least "okay with") the notion of cryonics on the basis of it being an aesthetically interesting proposition. I am now actively curious as to whether anyone has signed up for cryonics as a "performance art" move!
I think a person can be an artistic/social personality type and still embrace cryonics, if they are well-rounded enough. My wife is a good example of this. She likely wouldn't have thought to do it on her own, but being married to me made it seem interesting enough, and she says cremation and burial are creepy. Mainly it is her way of signalling to me that she wants to share my interests and hopefully see the future with me. (She isn't much interested in the head-only option though.)
Anne, this is a good point.
Unfortunately for smart men, "nerdy" (Intellectually interesting, rational and generally not just a tits/ass-value-proposition) girls are rare. Even at Cambridge University there were few intellectually interesting women.
You're right about transhumanist blogs getting boring though. In fact, its always been just a tiny subset of nerds, and I realize now that virtually no one cares, the status of nerds in society in general is just so low. To be honest, I could freeze myself right now and cryo-sleep probably wouldn't that much more boring that pre-Singularity life in general.
The 'PUA' next to my name indicates a new career since my retirement from transhumanism - a comprehensive reserch project to understand that other great mystery of universe - women - this will require detailed 'hands on' empirical investigation.
Meanwhile, to avoid further yawns I think I'll only come back to transhumanism when SAI (Super Artificial Intelligence) comes into existence and immediately hacks both 'Overcoming Bias' and 'Less Wrong' - now that will be exciting. With the coming of SAI I look forward to a steady stream of new content on these blogs, uninterrupted kick-arse insights into the deepest secrets of reality, combined with an endless stream of virtual hot chicks.
I think that the "yuck factor," and jealously may not be the only issues:
If you don't believe in cryonics, you feel that your loved one is being scammed; so some reactions are "protective" as opposed to jealous emotional responses.It still requires a lot of money, that could be used otherwise; if you don't believe that cryonics is currently viable, why would you spend twice as much? Even if the person is very rich there is a sense of the "dead" (I'm not going to split hairs) stealing from the living. We're hardwired to avoid apparent waste.......cryopreservation is a more rational choice that sending your ashes out to space, but maybe women's view on cryogenics are a result of cognitive differences that result in different evaluations of the probabilities of success (and the utility balance of it.)"even a woman" figured this out.
anon’s system seems workable. Immortality as the general rule, and anyone who wants a child must agree to die after that child reaches a certain age, at which time they transfer all their assets to that child.
This is reasonable. I'd go for this.
So I presume you are only referring to female partners (or "wives" as the case may be) who aren't geeks or nerds themselves? Because as a nerdy female (happily partnered to a nerdy guy) who can think of at least three other non-cryonics-hostile nerdy females off the top of my head, I find it rather bizarre that a geek woman partnered to a geek man would leave him over something like cryonics. Maybe these men referred to in the original post are just focusing on the wrong things in selecting partners, when they'd be better off seeking out nerdier women.
You might note that there is a difference between being able to handle something and being able to imagine it. I think most people would be able to handle a lot more change than they can (or are willing to) imagine handling.
Some immortals don't reproduce at all. Others reproduce one every, say, few hundred years. Who wins?
@ Tim Tyler
If a young married woman had a terminal disease, would she object if her husband didn't plan to kill himself after she died? What if he also had a potentially fatal disease and was having it treated? The latter is similar to cryo in that he's taking definite action (not just abstaining from suicide) to reach a future without her, and probably with other women. What would we think of her if she did demand her husband forgo treatment?
So, you have utter contempt for the Europeans who decided not to be among the colonizers of America because the separation from their familiar world would be too hard for them to bear?
Having thought about this for a while, I've decided that people who cannot handle separation from familiarity really are pansies.
I moved from my home town to SoCal when I graduated from college at age 22. It was a big change for me. Even thought both places are in the same country, there still was "culture shock" for me. I adapted, overcame, and improvised and created a new life for my self with new friends. This is also where I got into the life extension/cryonics/space development milieu.
Later, I ended up in Japan at a time I never expected to live outside the U.S. I mean, until I actually went to Japan, the very thought of living in a society like Japan was completely alien to me. Talk about culture shock. As with the previous case I adapted, overcame, and improvised and created a new life for my self with new friends. I also met my wife in Japan as well.
So, yeah, I consider the ability to have the adaptability to uproot oneself and to create a entirely new life for oneself as a fundamental personal survival skill.
"I would want to make sterilization of all people mandatory. I think this could be easily arranged. Just put birth control in the water supply along with the fluoridation."Hey wait a minute! Some of we childfree are traditionalists, and have used the safe, proven, technology of vasectomy rather than ingesting hormones from the water supply. :)
So, you have utter contempt for the Europeans who decided not to be among the colonizers of America because the separation from their familiar world would be too hard for them to bear?
No I don't. But those that cannot handle such separation have no business criticizing the choices of those that can.
Time for a pep talk in the form of some lyrics from Queen ("Princes of the Universe")http://www.youtube.com/watc...
"We're the princes of the universe Here we belong, fighting to survive In a world with the darkest powers, heh" ..."I am immortal, I have inside me blood of kings - yeah - yeah "..."I'm a man that will go far Fly the moon and reach for the stars With my sword and head held high Got to pass the test first time - yeah"
And ("It's a Kind of Magic")http://www.youtube.com/watc...
"One dream one soul, one prizeOne goal, one golden glance of what should beIt’s a kind of magicOne shaft of light that shows the wayNo mortal man can win this day"..."The waiting seems eternityThe day will dawn of sanityIs this a kind of magic?It's a kind of magicThere can be only one"..."This rage that lasts a thousand yearsWill soon be, will soon beWill soon be done"
Cryonics represents failure. Even the immortals ("Highlander") warn that: "If your head separates from your body, it's over".