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Peter Gerdes's avatar

Yes, the key to useful disagreement and discussion is to minimize opacity. The more carefully and preciscely terms are laid out and the less room for interpretive disagreement the more chance of learning from each other and getting to the truth better.

This was why I reacted so negatively to Girad and his approach. It's not that his ideas might not be good or correct -- maybe their substantially above average -- but his approach to argument and presentation essentially maximizes opacity.

And I think that's what trips people up about the value of very sorta vague and metaphorical (what some people call continental style) argumentation. The reason it's unhelpful isn't that the ideas are bad or week. It's that no one else can really benefit when they are highly opaque so he might as well just have sketched a 3 paragraph blog post saying hey maybe this as written an extensive academic style book.

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Boring Radical Centrism's avatar

I think a major part comes down to what sources you trust. Say the argument is about whether gun control decreases or increases crime. I cite study X saying it decreases crime, the person I'm arguing with cites study Y. Neither of have the experience with statistics or study methodology to actually determine which study was better done. What do we do? We turn to people or institutions we trust and respect, and see what they say on it. Usually I personally turn to Scott Alexander and try to see if he has an opinion on the topic, another person might turn to Fox News, or Contrapoints, or their college professor.

Why do I trust Scott Alexander?

a) A lot of smart and respected people like economists and angel investors trust and respect him

b) His logical arguments on topics like morality, that don't require any statistics and are comprehensible in their entirety to me, make sense to me, so I extend some trust to him when speaks on topics that aren't fully comprehensible to me

c) His evidence, to the degree that I am able to parse it, does make sense and looks credible

c) I've looked into people who try to debunk his arguments and they fail to convince me, because they're usually the reverse of a) and b). His detractors usually don't have as many respected and trusted people respecting and trusting them. And their logical arguments don't make as much sense to me(e.g they might there is an intrinsic value in bodily integrity when arguing about kidney donation). Notably their c) category arguments that rely on studies and statistics and other forms of evidence like anecdotes might be just as convincing as Scott's, and I cannot easily determine who's more credible for myself just by trying to look at who has the better interpretation of the data.

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