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philh's avatar
Aug 6Edited

I'm the author of the linked "Conditional prediction markets are evidential, not causal" (and also asked about this in the talk today). Some quick thoughts:

First, when I wrote it I wasn't specifically thinking about futarchy. (I don't claim to know precisely what futarchy is, but I assume not every use of conditional prediction markets is futarchy.)

E.g. take "if Disney sues Apple for copyright infringement, will they win?" It's plausible to me (I haven't checked) that if Disney chooses to sue based only on the outcome of the market, and it's known that they'll do that, then the market gives causal probabilities, not evidential. That's my vague understanding of futarchy.

But "I am Disney and I'm using this market to decide what to do" isn't the only reason someone might make that market. Maybe they'll take it into account but not just that. Maybe Apple is using it to check their legal exposure. Maybe a bystander is just curious.

Second, this seems mistaken to me:

> Imagine that market traders all had exactly the same info, the same as the info of decision maker d. Further imagine that they all use the same kind of decision theory, be it evidential, causal, or something else. Given these assumptions, they would all agree on their estimates E[U_d | A], as well as on other E[X|A] = Sum_i X_i p(X_i if A), because they would agree on and use the same conditional chances p(X_i if A). Traders here would use their beliefs on the causal structure of d’s action A related to other events X, and if they have the same info they should have the same beliefs on that causal structure.

As a decision maker, I want to maximize Sum_i U_d(O_i) p(O_i if A), and "if" here might mean "p(O_i | A)" (EDT) or "p(O_i | do(A))" (CDT) or perhaps something else.

But as a trader, the only probabilities I use are of the form "p(X|A)". If I'm a CDT trader, I still don't use p(X|do(A)), because that's just not how the market resolves.

Sparr's avatar

I think you've conflated different sorts of "do" here. Your argument about correlation vs causation is strong when the people making the predictions have the power to do or not do. It's weaker when the bettor has little to no control over the person(s) who might do. It holds virtually no water if the "do" in question is itself a statistic covering millions of people (e.g. a market conditional on the outcome of an election).

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