Search Results for: Singularity

Me On Future

Next Big Future’s Sander Olson interviewed me (short text here), and Ted Goertzel (Ben’s dad) had me give a guest lecture (1.5hr vid/slides here) for his Singularity Studies class at Rutgers.  I didn’t say anything new, but some may enjoy them.  Sander tried a bit too hard to quote me as forecasting big change soon; the vid gives a more accurate impression.

Seek Peace, Not Values

David Chalmers has a new paper on future artificial minds:

If humans survive, the rapid replacement of existing human traditions and practices would be regarded as subjectively bad by some but not by others. … The very fact of an ongoing intelligence explosion all around one could be subjectively bad, perhaps due to constant competition and instability, or because certain intellectual endeavours would come to seem pointless. On the other hand, if superintelligent systems share our values, they will presumably have the capacity to ensure that the resulting situation accords with those values. …

If at any point there is a powerful AI+ or AI++ with the wrong value system, we can expect disaster (relative to our values) to ensue. The wrong value system need not be anything as obviously bad as, say, valuing the destruction of humans. If the AI+ value system is merely neutral with respect to some of our values, then in the long run we cannot expect the world to conform to those values. For example, if the system values scientific progress but is neutral on human existence, we cannot expect humans to survive in the long run. And even if the AI+ system values human existence, but only insofar as it values all conscious or intelligent life, then the chances of human survival are at best unclear.

Chalmers is an excellent philosopher, but to me the above reflects an unhealthy obsession with foreigner values, one common among the economically-illiterate.  So let me try to educate him (and you).

Why fear future robots with differing values? Here is one possible cause:

Fear Of Strangers:  Our distant ancestors evolved a deep fear of strangers.  They knew that their complex ways to keep peace only worked for folks they knew, who looked, talked, and acted like them.  Unexpected strangers were probably best killed on sight.

This is a good explanation, but much less a good reason, to fear robots.  Over recent millennia humans have developed many ways, e.g., trade, contract, law, and treaties, to keep peace with folks who look, talk, and act differently.  We only need others to be similar enough to us to use these methods; they need to know what equilibrium behavior to expect, and to speak in languages we can translate. They don’t otherwise need to share our values.

But even if peace is preserved, other reasons for fear remain:

Outbid By Rich:  In some situations you can reasonably expect declining relative future wealth for yourself and those you care about.  For example, a century ago folks who foresaw cars replacing horses, and who had a very strong heritable preference for working with horses, could reasonably expect falling demand, and lower relative wages, for their preferred job skills. (The horses themselves did far worse; most could not afford subsistence wages.)  Now for many things you want it is absolute, not relative, wages that matter.  But some things, like prime sea-view property, can be commonly valued and in limited supply.  So you might fear others’ richer descendants outbidding yours for sea views.

Note that this fear requires an expectation that, relative to others, your nature or preferences conflicts more with your productivity.  Note also that in some ways this problem gets worse as others get more similar.  For example, if others prefer mountain views while you prefer sea views, their wealth would less reduce your access to sea views.  If this is the problem, you should prefer others to have different values from you.

What if you worry that rich others threaten your descendants’ existence, and not just their sea view access?  Well since interest rates have long been high, and since typical wages are now far above subsistence, then modest savings today, and secure property rights tomorrow, could ensure many surviving descendants tomorrow.  But you might still fear:

War & Theft:  Over the last few centuries we have vastly improved our ability to coordinate on larger scales, greatly reducing the rate of war, theft, and other property violations. Nevertheless, war and theft still happen, and we cannot guarantee recent trends will continue.  So many fear foreign nations, e.g., China or India, getting rich and militarily powerful, then seeking world conquest.  One may also fear theft of one’s innovations if intellectual property rights remain weak.

Note that these new ways to coordinate on large scales to prevent war and theft rely little on our empathy for, or similarity with, distant others.  They depend far more on our ways to make commitments and to monitor key acts.  And the mere possibility of future theft would hardly be a good reason for genocide today; we now seem to benefit greatly on net when distant foreigners get rich.  This doesn’t mean we should ignore the risks of future war and theft, but it does suggest that our efforts should focus more on improving our ways to coordinate on large scales, and less on preparing to exterminate them before they exterminate us.

Chalmers does not say why exactly we should expect robots with the “wrong” values to give “disaster,” so much so that he is sympathetic to preventing their autonomy if only that were possible:

We might try to constrain their cognitive capacities in certain respects, so that they are good at certain tasks with which we need help, but so that they lack certain key features such as autonomy. … On the face of it, such an AI might pose fewer risks than an autonomous AI, at least if it is in the hands of a responsible controller.  Now, it is far from clear that AI or AI+ systems of this sort will be feasible. … Such an approach is likely to be unstable in the long run.

Chalmers offers no reasons to fear robots beyond the three standard reasons to fear foreigners I’ve listed above: fear of strangers, outbid by rich, and war & theft.  Nor does he offer reasons why it is robots’ differing values that are the problem, even though differing values are mainly only important for the fear of strangers motive, which has little relevance in the modern world.  Until we have particular credible reasons to fear robots more than other foreigners, we should treat robots like generic foreigners, with caution but also an expectation of mutual gains from trade.

Finally, let me note that Chalmers’ discussion could benefit from economists’ habit of noting that our ability to make most anything depends on the price of inputs, and therefore on the entire world economy, and not just on internal features of particular systems. Chalmers:

All we need for the purpose of the argument is (i) a self-amplifying cognitive capacity G: a capacity such that increases in that capacity go along with proportionate (or greater) increases in the ability to create systems with that capacity, (ii) the thesis that we can create systems whose capacity G is greater than our own, and (iii) a correlated cognitive capacity H that we care about, such that certain small increases in H can always be produced by large enough increases in G.

Unless the “system” here is our total economy, this description falsely suggests that a smaller system’s capacity to create other systems depends only on its internal features.

Added 6Apr: From the comments it seems my main point isn’t getting through, so let me rephrase: I’m not saying we have nothing to fear from robots, nor that their values make no difference.  I’m saying the natural and common human obsession with how much their values differ overall from ours distracts us from worrying effectively.  Here are better priorities for living in peace with strange potentially-powerful creatures, be they robots, aliens, time-travelers, or just diverse human races:

  1. Reduce the salience of the them-us distinction relative to other distinctions.  Try to have them and us live intermingled, and not segregated, so that many natural alliances of shared interests include both us and them.
  2. Have them and us use the same (or at least similar) institutions to keep peace among themselves and ourselves as we use to keep peace between them and us.  Minimize any ways those institutions formally treat us and them differently.

Added 7Apr: See also two posts from October.

Is The City-ularity Near?

The land around New York City is worth a lot.  A 2008 analysis estimated prices for land, not counting buildings etc., for most (~80%?) of the nearby area (2750 square miles, = a 52 mile square).  The total New York area land value (total land times ave price) was 5.5T$ (trillion) in 2002 and 28T$ in 2006.

The Economist said that in 2002 all developed nation real estate was worth 62T$.  Since raw land value is on average about a third of total real estate value, that puts New York area real estate at over 30% of all developed nation real estate in 2002!  Whatever the exact number, clearly this agglomeration contains vast value.

New York land is valuable mainly because of how it is organized.  People want to be there because they want to interact with other people they expect to be there, and they expect those interactions to be quite mutually beneficial.  If you could take any other 50 mile square (of which Earth has 72,000), and create that same expectation of mutual value from interactions, you could get people to come there, make buildings, etc., and sell that land for many trillions of dollars of profit.

Yet the organization of New York was mostly set long ago based on old tech (e.g., horses, cars, typewriters).  Worse, no one really understands at a deep level how it is organized or why that works so well.  Different people understand different parts, in mostly crude empirical ways.

So what will happen when super-duper smarties wrinkle their brows so hard that out pops a deep math theory of cities, explaining clearly how city value is produced?  What if they apply their theory to designing a city structure that takes best advantage of our most advanced techs, of 7gen phones, twitter-pedias, flying Segways, solar panels, gene-mod pigeons, and super-fluffy cupcakes?  Making each city aspect more efficient makes the city more attractive, increasing the gains from making other aspects more efficient, in a grand spiral of bigger gains.

Once they convince the world of the vast value in their super-stupendous city design, won’t everyone flock there and pay mucho trillions for the privilege? Couldn’t they leverage this lead into better theories enabling better designs giving far more trillions, and then spend all that on a super-designed war machine based on those same super insights, and turn us all into down dour super-slaves?  So isn’t the very mostest importantest cause ever to make sure that we, the friendly freedom fighters, find this super deep city theory first?

Well, no, it isn’t.  We don’t believe in a city-ularity because we don’t believe in a super-city theory found in a big brain flash of insight.  What makes cities work well is mostly getting lots of details right.  Sure new-tech-based cities designs can work better, but gradual tech gains mean no city is suddenly vastly better than others.  Each change has costs to be weighed against hoped-for gains.  Sure costs of change might be lower when making a whole new city from scratch, but for that to work you have to be damn sure you know which changes are actually good ideas.

For similar reasons, I’m skeptical of a blank-slate AI mind-design singularity.  Sure if there were a super mind theory that allowed vast mental efficiency gains all at once, but there isn’t.  Minds are vast complex structures full of parts that depend intricately on each other, much like the citizens of a city.  Minds, like cities, best improve gradually, because you just never know enough to manage a vast redesign of something with such complex inter-dependent adaptations.

Come The Em Rev

China on Friday unveiled a shake-up of the way land is seized for redevelopment. … Land seizures over the past decade have been central to the rapid modernization of hundreds of Chinese cities, which in turn has been one of the main drivers of the nation’s economic growth. But they also have been the source of often-violent conflicts, especially in the past year, as huge volumes of stimulus funds have gone into building projects.  Post

Rich stable nations, comfortable and safe on top of the global game, feel little inclination to consider big disruptive changes.  The price they pay for internal peace is the steady accumulation of Olsonian veto groups, who can block big changes.  Stable inflexible institutions seem acceptable when change is slow and life seem good enough.

This frustrates rich-nation would-be-rebels like me who see our business, legal, political, etc. institutions as far from optimal.  Such rebels want to explore big changes, but must either: 1) accept only tinkering around the edges, 2) move to a place more willing to make changes, or 3) wait for crises where larger changes might fly.

So what crises loom?  In the US we can expect the long foreseen budget “train wreck” within a decade or two.  This must be addressed by huge tax increases, spending decreases, or both.  Foresighted politicians are positioning their blame and solutions for that crisis.  Since we spend so much on military and medical benefits, I’ve wondered if we’ll consider “Med is a waste, cut it way back” or “Let the world defend itself, cut our military.” Alas, neither seems likely.

In two to five decades, the US will probably start to take seriously global competition from big fast growing nations like China or India.  The US might then consider adopting policies credited with growing those nations fast, though national pride may block that.  Foresighted advocates will position their credit and solutions for that crisis.

But if you lust after huge institutional change in long-rich nations, if you long to say “come the revolution,” you might wait three to fifteen decades for the “em rev“, the whole brain emulation revolution.  The em rev is my best guess for the next “singularity” scale change, like the farming or industrial revolutions, each of which sped world growth rates by more than a factor of a hundred, within less than a previous doubling time.  We now double in fifteen years, so within a few years an em-econ could double monthly! Continue Reading "Come The Em Rev" »

Take Both Econ, Techies Seriously

Martin Ford, software CEO and author of a new (bad) book on how automation may destroy our economy, is right about one thing:

Among people who work in the field of computer technology, it is fairly routine to speculate about the likelihood that computers will someday approach, or possibly even exceed, human beings in general capability and intelligence. … While technologists are actively thinking about, and writing books about, intelligent machines, the idea that technology will ever truly replace a large fraction of the human workforce and lead to permanent, structural unemployment is, for the majority of economists, almost unthinkable. For mainstream economists, at least in the long run, technological advancement always leads to more prosperity and more jobs.

Yes, techies agree on the long term plausibility of machines doing almost all jobs at a cost below human subsistence wages, thereby gaining almost all income, while economists ignore this scenario.  E.g., Tyler Cowen:

In the longer run … computers will free up lots of human labor — but in the meantime it will have drastic implications for income redistribution, across both individuals and across economic sectors. … Robin Hanson believes we are headed back toward a Malthusian equilibrium; in contrast I believe that machines will never outcompete humans across the board.

Arnold Kling agreed:

I agree that Singularians are far too optimistic about artificial intelligence. It is a variation of the “fatal conceit” problem. Most of human intelligence is tacit knowledge, consisting of elaborate metaphors that are originally acquired from sensory experience. Artificial intelligence is an attempt to arrive at the same point through top-down design. … Computers and robots will be economically significant but not paradigm-shifting.

Economists should listen more to techies on what techs will be feasible at what costs, but techies should also listen more to economists on the social implications of tech costs.  Alas, just as economists prefer to rely on their intuitive folk tech forecasts, techies prefer to rely instead on their intuitive folk economics.  E.g., Martin Ford’s misguided intuitions: Continue Reading "Take Both Econ, Techies Seriously" »

Prefer Law To Values

On Tuesday I asked my law & econ undergrads what sort of future robots (AIs computers etc.) they would want, if they could have any sort they wanted.  Most seemed to want weak vulnerable robots that would stay lower in status, e.g., short, stupid, short-lived, easily killed, and without independent values. When I asked “what if I chose to become a robot?”, they said I should lose all human privileges, and be treated like the other robots.  I winced; seems anti-robot feelings are even stronger than anti-immigrant feelings, which bodes for a stormy robot transition.

At a workshop following last weekend’s Singularity Summit two dozen thoughtful experts mostly agreed that it is very important that future robots have the right values.  It was heartening that most were willing accept high status robots, with vast impressive capabilities, but even so I thought they missed the big picture.  Let me explain.

Imagine that you were forced to leave your current nation, and had to choose another place to live.  Would you seek a nation where the people there were short, stupid, sickly, etc.?  Would you select a nation based on what the World Values Survey says about typical survey question responses there?

I doubt it.  Besides wanting a place with people you already know and like, you’d want a place where you could “prosper”, i.e., where they valued the skills you had to offer, had many nice products and services you valued for cheap, and where predation was kept in check, so that you didn’t much have to fear theft of your life, limb, or livelihood.  If you similarly had to choose a place to retire, you might pay less attention to whether they valued your skills, but you would still look for people you knew and liked, low prices on stuff you liked, and predation kept in check. Continue Reading "Prefer Law To Values" »

Singularity PR Dupes?

I’m to speak at a $500-per-attendee Singularity Summit in New York in early October. “Singularity” is associated with many claims, but most are controversial. They say:

The Singularity represents an “event horizon” in the predictability of human technological development past which present models of the future may cease to give reliable answers, following the creation of strong AI or the enhancement of human intelligence.

(They also list related definitions.)  An awful lot of folks, perhaps even most, consider these ideas silly and/or crazy.  They also say:

The Singularity Summit is the world’s leading dialog on the Singularity, bringing together scientists, technologists, skeptics, and enthusiasts alike.

But looking over their program, I noticed that while many speakers are distinguished, those folks won’t directly address the controversial claims; they will instead talk on their usual topics.  A few will talk on how they are trying to design general machine intelligence, but only Kurzweil, Yudkowsky, and Salamon will speak directly to the main controversial issues, and they will take “pro” sides.  As far as I can tell, only I will take a somewhat con side (explained below), but only on some claims, and only tangentially to my brief talk.

It seems as if the organizers plan to gain credibility for their claims by having credible people speak at an event where some speakers make such claims, even if those credible speakers do not address those claims.  Such organizers even expect to gain credit for promoting a “dialog.”  How common is this strategy?  How effective?  How fair?  How much does agreeing to speak at such an event make it seem that you agree with its theme claims?   How many of the summit’s distinguished speakers do agree with those claims?

Those who followed my debate here at OB with Eliezer Yudkowsky last year (e.g., here, here) will be familiar with all this, but let me review.  Here are some of the more controversial claims associated with “singularity”:

  1. Progress is accelerating rapidly across a wide range of techs.
  2. Smarter than human machines are likely in a few decades.
  3. Such machines will induce dramatic and rapid social change.
  4. This change is impossible to foresee; don’t even try.
  5. A single localized super-smart machine or a cabal of them is likely to take over everything.
  6. That cabal’s values determine everything, but via self-modification could become anything.
  7. So everything depends on finding a way to give such machines stable values we like.
  8. No one should try to make super smart machines before knowing how to do this.

I disagree with many but hardly all of these:

  • No, overall neither econ nor tech progress is much accelerating lately.
  • Yes, smarter than human machines are likely in roughly a half century to a century or two, but most likely because whole brain emulations will first induce an important era of near human level machines.
  • Yes, this em era will bring huge rapid social changes, but we can and should use social science to foresee these changes.
  • Yes, this em era may well end via super smart machines, and yes it is hard to constrain the values of the distant future, but a single local machine or cabal taking over everything and then immediately evolving out of value control seems extremely unlikely.  It runs counter to most of our econ and tech innovation experience, and the theories we use to make sense of that experience.
  • Yes, a few powerful-enough mind-design insights could conceivably allow one brash team to leap this far ahead of the world, and some folks should think about how to give machines stable values we like, but most futurists should focus on more likely scenarios.

On Not Having an Advance Abyssal Plan

"Even though he could foresee the problem then, we can see it equally well now.  Therefore, if he could foresee the solution then, we should be able to see it now.  After all, Seldon was not a magician.  There are no trick methods of escaping a dilemma that he can see and we can't."
        — Salvor Hardin

Years ago at the Singularity Institute, the Board was entertaining a proposal to expand somewhat.  I wasn't sure our funding was able to support the expansion, so I insisted that – if we started running out of money – we decide in advance who got fired and what got shut down, in what order.

Even over the electronic aether, you could hear the uncomfortable silence.

"Why can't we decide that at the time, if the worst happens?" they said, or something along those lines.

"For the same reason that when you're buying a stock you think will go up, you decide how far it has to decline before it means you were wrong," I said, or something along those lines; this being far back enough in time that I would still have used stock-trading in a rationality example.  "If we can make that decision during a crisis, we ought to be able to make it now.  And if I can't trust that we can make this decision in a crisis, I can't trust this to go forward."

People are really, really reluctant to plan in advance for the abyss.  But what good reason is there not to?  How can you be worse off from knowing in advance what you'll do in the worse cases?

I have been trying fairly hard to keep my mouth shut about the current economic crisis.  But still -

Why didn't various governments create and publish a plan for what they would do in the event of various forms of financial collapse, before it actually happened?

Continue Reading "On Not Having an Advance Abyssal Plan" »

Good Idealistic Books are Rare

Saith Robin in "Seeking a Cynic's Library":

Cynicism and Idealism are a classic yin and yang, a contradictory pair where we all seem to need both sides…

Books on education, medicine, government, charity, religion, technology, travel, relationships, etc. mostly present relatively idealistic views, though of course no view is entirely one way or the other.  So one reason the young tend to be idealistic is that most reading material they can easily find and understand is idealistic. 

My impression of this differs somewhat from Robin's (what a surprise).

I think that what we see in most books of the class Robin describes, are official views.  These official views may leave out many unpleasant elements of the story.  But because officialism also tries to signal authority and maturity, it's hardly likely to permit itself any real hope or enthusiasm.  Perhaps an obligatory if formal nod in the direction of some popular good cause, because this is expected of officialdom.  But this is hardly an idealistic voice.

What does a full-blown nonfictional idealism look like?  Some examples that I remember from my own youth:

  • Jerry Pournelle's A Step Farther Out, an idealistic view of space travel and more general technological advancement, and the possibility of rising standards of living as opposed to Ehrlichian gloomsaying.
  • Brown, Keating, Mellinger, Post, Smith, and Tudor's The Incredible Bread Machine, my childhood introduction to traditional capitalist values.
  • Eric Drexler's Engines of Creation (and to a lesser extent Ed Regis's Great Mambo Chicken), my introduction to transhumanism.
  • Richard Feynman's Surely You're Joking, Mr. Feynman (for traditional rationalist values).

Supposing you wanted your child to grow up an idealist – what nonfiction books like these could you find to give them?  I don't find it easy to think of many – most nonfiction books are not like this.

Continue Reading "Good Idealistic Books are Rare" »

…And Say No More Of It

Followup toThe Thing That I Protect

Anything done with an ulterior motive has to be done with a pure heart.  You cannot serve your ulterior motive, without faithfully prosecuting your overt purpose as a thing in its own right, that has its own integrity.  If, for example, you're writing about rationality with the intention of recruiting people to your utilitarian Cause, then you cannot talk too much about your Cause, or you will fail to successfully write about rationality.

This doesn't mean that you never say anything about your Cause, but there's a balance to be struck.  "A fanatic is someone who can't change his mind and won't change the subject."

In previous months, I've pushed this balance too far toward talking about Singularity-related things.  And this was for (first-order) selfish reasons on my part; I was finally GETTING STUFF SAID that had been building up painfully in my brain for FRICKIN' YEARS.  And so I just kept writing, because it was finally coming out.  For those of you who have not the slightest interest, I'm sorry to have polluted your blog with that.

When Less Wrong starts up, it will, by my own request, impose a two-month moratorium on discussion of "Friendly AI" and other Singularity/intelligence explosion-related topics.

There's a number of reasons for this.  One of them is simply to restore the balance.  Another is to make sure that a forum intended to have a more general audience, doesn't narrow itself down and disappear.

But more importantly – there are certain subjects which tend to drive people crazy, even if there's truth behind them.  Quantum mechanics would be the paradigmatic example; you don't have to go funny in the head but a lot of people do.  Likewise Godel's Theorem, consciousness, Artificial Intelligence -

The concept of "Friendly AI" can be poisonous in certain ways.  True or false, it carries risks to mental health.  And not just the obvious liabilities of praising a Happy Thing.  Something stranger and subtler that drains enthusiasm.

Continue Reading "…And Say No More Of It" »