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	<title>Comments on: Polygamy Hypocrisy</title>
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	<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2010/07/polygamy-hypocrisy.html</link>
	<description>Overcoming Bias is economist Robin Hanson’s blog, on honesty, signaling, disagreement, forecasting, and the far future.</description>
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		<title>By: Overcoming Bias : Rah Efficient IP</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2010/07/polygamy-hypocrisy.html#comment-488051</link>
		<dc:creator>Overcoming Bias : Rah Efficient IP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jul 2011 15:22:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overcomingbias.com/?p=23749#comment-488051</guid>
		<description>[...] this efficiency basis, I&#8217;ve defended many controversial policies, such as blackmail or polygamy. But oddly, I seem to elicit the most outrage by defending the mere possibility of efficient [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] this efficiency basis, I&#8217;ve defended many controversial policies, such as blackmail or polygamy. But oddly, I seem to elicit the most outrage by defending the mere possibility of efficient [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Janice S.</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2010/07/polygamy-hypocrisy.html#comment-454655</link>
		<dc:creator>Janice S.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Sep 2010 20:38:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overcomingbias.com/?p=23749#comment-454655</guid>
		<description>In Canada the British Columbia Attorney General thinks women should be except from anti polygamy laws and that only partiarchical polygamy should be illegal. Hows that for overcoming bias? Whats good for the gander is not good for the goose?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In Canada the British Columbia Attorney General thinks women should be except from anti polygamy laws and that only partiarchical polygamy should be illegal. Hows that for overcoming bias? Whats good for the gander is not good for the goose?</p>
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		<title>By: Tracy W</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2010/07/polygamy-hypocrisy.html#comment-451665</link>
		<dc:creator>Tracy W</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Aug 2010 19:06:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overcomingbias.com/?p=23749#comment-451665</guid>
		<description>When a guy proposes marriage to you nowadays, that means he&#039;s proposing an exclusive relationship. If polygamy was legalised, what is he proposing? Yes, people often cheat on their spouses, and I&#039;ve read some accounts by men that they were standing at the alter, exchanging vows, and even right then thinking about which woman in the congregation they&#039;d next sleep with, but at least it is socially agreed that the cheaters are violating their word. If a guy proposes marriage when polygamy is okay, what is he really proposing? 

It strikes me that there&#039;s a fundamental difference between a relationship that&#039;s intended and understood as being exclusive, and one that lacks that understanding. In my experience, my husband&#039;s first commitment is to me, and vice-versa. If I had another wife, and the two of us both needed him as badly, who would he help first? Obviously if we have kids that would change, but the parent-child relationship is different in nature again to the spousal one (and I note that stepparents often find their spouse&#039;s fundamental loyalty to the children a source of conflict). 
 
A polygamous marriage doesn&#039;t have the same meaning as a monogamous marriage, and I think it&#039;s a shame that we apply the same word to both setups.  Same-sex marriage doesn&#039;t change the meaning of marriage the same way, because obviously two men or two women can be committed to each other first in a way that three people can&#039;t be. 

Please switch genders around as desired.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When a guy proposes marriage to you nowadays, that means he&#8217;s proposing an exclusive relationship. If polygamy was legalised, what is he proposing? Yes, people often cheat on their spouses, and I&#8217;ve read some accounts by men that they were standing at the alter, exchanging vows, and even right then thinking about which woman in the congregation they&#8217;d next sleep with, but at least it is socially agreed that the cheaters are violating their word. If a guy proposes marriage when polygamy is okay, what is he really proposing? </p>
<p>It strikes me that there&#8217;s a fundamental difference between a relationship that&#8217;s intended and understood as being exclusive, and one that lacks that understanding. In my experience, my husband&#8217;s first commitment is to me, and vice-versa. If I had another wife, and the two of us both needed him as badly, who would he help first? Obviously if we have kids that would change, but the parent-child relationship is different in nature again to the spousal one (and I note that stepparents often find their spouse&#8217;s fundamental loyalty to the children a source of conflict). </p>
<p>A polygamous marriage doesn&#8217;t have the same meaning as a monogamous marriage, and I think it&#8217;s a shame that we apply the same word to both setups.  Same-sex marriage doesn&#8217;t change the meaning of marriage the same way, because obviously two men or two women can be committed to each other first in a way that three people can&#8217;t be. </p>
<p>Please switch genders around as desired.</p>
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		<title>By: Robin Hanson</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2010/07/polygamy-hypocrisy.html#comment-451619</link>
		<dc:creator>Robin Hanson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Jul 2010 15:18:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overcomingbias.com/?p=23749#comment-451619</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;http://evoandproud.blogspot.com/2009/03/urinary-estrogen-theory-part-iii.html?showComment=1238107140000#c3578673857598935315&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;This&lt;/a&gt; says lesbians are more common than gays.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://evoandproud.blogspot.com/2009/03/urinary-estrogen-theory-part-iii.html?showComment=1238107140000#c3578673857598935315" rel="nofollow">This</a> says lesbians are more common than gays.</p>
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		<title>By: Konkvistador</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2010/07/polygamy-hypocrisy.html#comment-451583</link>
		<dc:creator>Konkvistador</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Jul 2010 00:06:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overcomingbias.com/?p=23749#comment-451583</guid>
		<description>Concerning the laws they do sound outrageous! They aren&#039;t very congruent with our &quot;official&quot; positions on sexual choice.

BTW I don&#039;t get why fringe Mormons don&#039;t just have a religious ceremony performed? Or if they must use contracts to cover as much of the same legal ground as marriage does.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Concerning the laws they do sound outrageous! They aren&#8217;t very congruent with our &#8220;official&#8221; positions on sexual choice.</p>
<p>BTW I don&#8217;t get why fringe Mormons don&#8217;t just have a religious ceremony performed? Or if they must use contracts to cover as much of the same legal ground as marriage does.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Konkvistador</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2010/07/polygamy-hypocrisy.html#comment-451582</link>
		<dc:creator>Konkvistador</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Jul 2010 23:58:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overcomingbias.com/?p=23749#comment-451582</guid>
		<description>Brainwashing is for the most part defined as raising someone in any culture we sufficiently dislike.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brainwashing is for the most part defined as raising someone in any culture we sufficiently dislike.</p>
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		<title>By: Konkvistador</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2010/07/polygamy-hypocrisy.html#comment-451581</link>
		<dc:creator>Konkvistador</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Jul 2010 23:56:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overcomingbias.com/?p=23749#comment-451581</guid>
		<description>Incest. Why do we forbid cousins from marrying considering the rate of birth defects by their kids is about as high as old (40s) women? 

I think part of the issue is that reproductive marriage, means at least for women putting some of their eggs in the same basket as the man. A well functioning married couple is a strong form of organization (albeit temporary, especially the well functioning bit). 

Also, group competition comes into play I think. If we let them marry more than one women they go after OUR women and WE can&#039;t let THOSE guys have them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Incest. Why do we forbid cousins from marrying considering the rate of birth defects by their kids is about as high as old (40s) women? </p>
<p>I think part of the issue is that reproductive marriage, means at least for women putting some of their eggs in the same basket as the man. A well functioning married couple is a strong form of organization (albeit temporary, especially the well functioning bit). </p>
<p>Also, group competition comes into play I think. If we let them marry more than one women they go after OUR women and WE can&#8217;t let THOSE guys have them.</p>
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		<title>By: Konkvistador</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2010/07/polygamy-hypocrisy.html#comment-451579</link>
		<dc:creator>Konkvistador</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Jul 2010 23:51:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overcomingbias.com/?p=23749#comment-451579</guid>
		<description>The sexual marketplace exists. One needs not be a economist to find the terms you single out appropriate, I use the all the time to describe such dynamics.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The sexual marketplace exists. One needs not be a economist to find the terms you single out appropriate, I use the all the time to describe such dynamics.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Konkvistador</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2010/07/polygamy-hypocrisy.html#comment-451578</link>
		<dc:creator>Konkvistador</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Jul 2010 23:49:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overcomingbias.com/?p=23749#comment-451578</guid>
		<description>Spread of diseases was a greather threat than violence on the battle field for civilizations with primitive medicine. Why should not the same be true of live in the city or village? 

In some hunter gatherer societies homicide is quite likley to be the no. 1 cause of male death. Perhaps some of those societies are more consistent in their treatment of homosexuality as a sexual release valve.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Spread of diseases was a greather threat than violence on the battle field for civilizations with primitive medicine. Why should not the same be true of live in the city or village? </p>
<p>In some hunter gatherer societies homicide is quite likley to be the no. 1 cause of male death. Perhaps some of those societies are more consistent in their treatment of homosexuality as a sexual release valve.</p>
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		<title>By: These days, those days</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2010/07/polygamy-hypocrisy.html#comment-451573</link>
		<dc:creator>These days, those days</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Jul 2010 23:02:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overcomingbias.com/?p=23749#comment-451573</guid>
		<description>Not all of the questions about multiple partners are about marriages and legal recognition to begin with.  Polyamory is a cultural movement that focuses on ideas about love, sex, relationships, and the rest, and not a lobby for any kind of changes to the marriage laws.  Maybe that would change if polyamory ever becomes a movement as strong as gay rights.  For now, though, it mainly seeks to observe that the unquestioned status quo is for both romantic partners to demand complete sexual exclusivity, and to further suggest that maybe they would be happier if they allowed each other to date other people (needless to say, this is an oversimplification).

Bigamy laws exist, of course, but probably most polyamorists are content to have relationships without legal recognition of these marriages.  (And when I say &quot;most polyamorists,&quot; I of course mean the free-love philosophy, not Mormon-style polygynists.)  And my impression was that at the time the laws were written, the lawmakers were worried about a man who would have two wives and fraudulently let each of them think they&#039;re the only one.  It&#039;s not clear whether legal marriage is a useful or neccessary means, in the present-day society, to men&#039;s age-old end of impregnating as many women as possible, but there you have it.

In fact, I looked up &quot;bigamy&quot; on Wikipedia, and I found it was worse than that.  The United States law distinguishes between bigamy for deceptive purposes like helping someone immigrate to the US, and plural marriages that are for the purpose of openly practicing polygamy or polyamory.  And the latter (named the offense of polygamy rather than bigamy) is the worse offense, a felony rather than a misdemeanor.  In other words, the law has made multiple marriages a worse offense if the polygamist is openly practicing a certain sexual philosophy, rather than just trying to deceive someone.  In other words, this legal distinction is just as much a thoughtcrime as the much-criticized legal distinction between &quot;racially motivated hate crimes&quot; and violent attacks perpetrated for any other motive.  Quite an outrage, really.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not all of the questions about multiple partners are about marriages and legal recognition to begin with.  Polyamory is a cultural movement that focuses on ideas about love, sex, relationships, and the rest, and not a lobby for any kind of changes to the marriage laws.  Maybe that would change if polyamory ever becomes a movement as strong as gay rights.  For now, though, it mainly seeks to observe that the unquestioned status quo is for both romantic partners to demand complete sexual exclusivity, and to further suggest that maybe they would be happier if they allowed each other to date other people (needless to say, this is an oversimplification).</p>
<p>Bigamy laws exist, of course, but probably most polyamorists are content to have relationships without legal recognition of these marriages.  (And when I say &#8220;most polyamorists,&#8221; I of course mean the free-love philosophy, not Mormon-style polygynists.)  And my impression was that at the time the laws were written, the lawmakers were worried about a man who would have two wives and fraudulently let each of them think they&#8217;re the only one.  It&#8217;s not clear whether legal marriage is a useful or neccessary means, in the present-day society, to men&#8217;s age-old end of impregnating as many women as possible, but there you have it.</p>
<p>In fact, I looked up &#8220;bigamy&#8221; on Wikipedia, and I found it was worse than that.  The United States law distinguishes between bigamy for deceptive purposes like helping someone immigrate to the US, and plural marriages that are for the purpose of openly practicing polygamy or polyamory.  And the latter (named the offense of polygamy rather than bigamy) is the worse offense, a felony rather than a misdemeanor.  In other words, the law has made multiple marriages a worse offense if the polygamist is openly practicing a certain sexual philosophy, rather than just trying to deceive someone.  In other words, this legal distinction is just as much a thoughtcrime as the much-criticized legal distinction between &#8220;racially motivated hate crimes&#8221; and violent attacks perpetrated for any other motive.  Quite an outrage, really.</p>
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