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	<title>Comments on: Layers of Delusion</title>
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	<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2010/06/layers-of-delusion.html</link>
	<description>Overcoming Bias is economist Robin Hanson’s blog, on honesty, signaling, disagreement, forecasting, and the far future.</description>
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		<title>By: Alexander Kruel &#183; Objections to Coherent Extrapolated Volition</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2010/06/layers-of-delusion.html#comment-486258</link>
		<dc:creator>Alexander Kruel &#183; Objections to Coherent Extrapolated Volition</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Jul 2011 11:41:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overcomingbias.com/?p=23378#comment-486258</guid>
		<description>[...] success in hunting down animals and proving abstract conjectures about cellular automata is largely determined by factors such as your education, culture and environmental circumstances. The same forager who cared to kill [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] success in hunting down animals and proving abstract conjectures about cellular automata is largely determined by factors such as your education, culture and environmental circumstances. The same forager who cared to kill [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Linkage is Good for You: Amusing Coincidence Edition (NSFW)</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2010/06/layers-of-delusion.html#comment-453426</link>
		<dc:creator>Linkage is Good for You: Amusing Coincidence Edition (NSFW)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Sep 2010 16:30:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overcomingbias.com/?p=23378#comment-453426</guid>
		<description>[...] Robin Hanson &#8211; &#8220;Layers of Delusion&#8221; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Robin Hanson &#8211; &#8220;Layers of Delusion&#8221; [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Robin Hanson</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2010/06/layers-of-delusion.html#comment-451076</link>
		<dc:creator>Robin Hanson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Jul 2010 13:07:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overcomingbias.com/?p=23378#comment-451076</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s a good question.  I&#039;d guess it arose with farming, since it correlates with farming-era values: &quot;people who ... believe in a just world also tend to be more religious, more authoritarian, more conservative, more likely to admire political leaders and existing social institutions.&quot;  To strengthen the power of social norms, we came to believe those who follow social norms are rewarded, those who do not are punished, more so than they actually are.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s a good question.  I&#8217;d guess it arose with farming, since it correlates with farming-era values: &#8220;people who &#8230; believe in a just world also tend to be more religious, more authoritarian, more conservative, more likely to admire political leaders and existing social institutions.&#8221;  To strengthen the power of social norms, we came to believe those who follow social norms are rewarded, those who do not are punished, more so than they actually are.</p>
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		<title>By: Noumenon</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2010/06/layers-of-delusion.html#comment-451074</link>
		<dc:creator>Noumenon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Jul 2010 12:48:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overcomingbias.com/?p=23378#comment-451074</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;To understand such delusions, it helps to understand the many layers that make up the human mind. &lt;/blockquote&gt;

Does it?  For example, I can trace my father&#039;s belief that the Black Panthers are going to take over society in a civil war to the primate layer: &quot;Primates can thus be deluded about who supports which coalition, and how strong are coalitions.&quot;  But how does that help me understand it?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>To understand such delusions, it helps to understand the many layers that make up the human mind. </p></blockquote>
<p>Does it?  For example, I can trace my father&#8217;s belief that the Black Panthers are going to take over society in a civil war to the primate layer: &#8220;Primates can thus be deluded about who supports which coalition, and how strong are coalitions.&#8221;  But how does that help me understand it?</p>
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		<title>By: In Mala Fide</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2010/06/layers-of-delusion.html#comment-449632</link>
		<dc:creator>In Mala Fide</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jun 2010 07:03:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overcomingbias.com/?p=23378#comment-449632</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Linkage is Good for You: Amusing Coincidence Edition (NSFW)...&lt;/strong&gt;

Get your titillating, unsafe-for-work linkage after the jump.......</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Linkage is Good for You: Amusing Coincidence Edition (NSFW)&#8230;</strong></p>
<p>Get your titillating, unsafe-for-work linkage after the jump&#8230;&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Patrick McCann</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2010/06/layers-of-delusion.html#comment-449455</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick McCann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jun 2010 20:02:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overcomingbias.com/?p=23378#comment-449455</guid>
		<description>To make sure you haven’t missed any, you should make sure all the entries over at the self-delusion blog, http://youarenotsosmart.com/, fit into your groupings.

For example, where would this fit in the taxonomy: http://youarenotsosmart.com/2010/06/07/the-just-world-fallacy/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To make sure you haven’t missed any, you should make sure all the entries over at the self-delusion blog, <a href="http://youarenotsosmart.com/" rel="nofollow">http://youarenotsosmart.com/</a>, fit into your groupings.</p>
<p>For example, where would this fit in the taxonomy: <a href="http://youarenotsosmart.com/2010/06/07/the-just-world-fallacy/" rel="nofollow">http://youarenotsosmart.com/2010/06/07/the-just-world-fallacy/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Philo</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2010/06/layers-of-delusion.html#comment-449325</link>
		<dc:creator>Philo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jun 2010 15:00:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overcomingbias.com/?p=23378#comment-449325</guid>
		<description>Comments on the first few categories:

Animal:  &quot;Animals usually act as if things not directly in view don’t exist. Embedded in brain architecture, these mistakes are hard to correct.&quot;  This is an odd comment as applied to human psychology.  We are constantly, routinely aware of the existence of things not currently visible.

Socialite:  &quot;Social mammals use a standard stress response for social stress; being disliked hurts health as if others had psychic powers.&quot;  I suppose the cognitive error in this is actual belief in the psychic powers of other people.  This has been widely overcome in the civilized world.  Of course, you are claiming only that overcoming it was *hard*, not that it was *impossible*.  The vagueness of your claim makes it hard to evaluate.

Primate:  &quot;Primates can thus be deluded about who supports which coalition, and how strong are coalitions.&quot;  We are also prey to many other sorts of overconfidence.  But some people are chronic self-doubters; where do they fit your scheme?

Talker:  &quot;We . . . are often deluded to think reality divides neatly according to our word categories. . . .  We . . . are deluded to think we reason more to find truth than to win arguments, and to think reality constrain[]s shared beliefs more than it does.&quot;  These seem like philosophical errors, of little practical importance.

Interesting stuff, even if not wholly convincing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Comments on the first few categories:</p>
<p>Animal:  &#8220;Animals usually act as if things not directly in view don’t exist. Embedded in brain architecture, these mistakes are hard to correct.&#8221;  This is an odd comment as applied to human psychology.  We are constantly, routinely aware of the existence of things not currently visible.</p>
<p>Socialite:  &#8220;Social mammals use a standard stress response for social stress; being disliked hurts health as if others had psychic powers.&#8221;  I suppose the cognitive error in this is actual belief in the psychic powers of other people.  This has been widely overcome in the civilized world.  Of course, you are claiming only that overcoming it was *hard*, not that it was *impossible*.  The vagueness of your claim makes it hard to evaluate.</p>
<p>Primate:  &#8220;Primates can thus be deluded about who supports which coalition, and how strong are coalitions.&#8221;  We are also prey to many other sorts of overconfidence.  But some people are chronic self-doubters; where do they fit your scheme?</p>
<p>Talker:  &#8220;We . . . are often deluded to think reality divides neatly according to our word categories. . . .  We . . . are deluded to think we reason more to find truth than to win arguments, and to think reality constrain[]s shared beliefs more than it does.&#8221;  These seem like philosophical errors, of little practical importance.</p>
<p>Interesting stuff, even if not wholly convincing.</p>
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		<title>By: Eric</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2010/06/layers-of-delusion.html#comment-449291</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jun 2010 20:18:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overcomingbias.com/?p=23378#comment-449291</guid>
		<description>Does it frustrate anybody else to try to read lists that are composed of words/phrases of different parts of speech?

&quot;Personal styles as preference, discernment, vs. show wealth, autonomy, loyal, tough, skills.&quot;

&quot;Personal styles as [noun], [noun], vs. [verb phrase], [noun], [adjective], [adjective], [noun].&quot;

So painful to read!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Does it frustrate anybody else to try to read lists that are composed of words/phrases of different parts of speech?</p>
<p>&#8220;Personal styles as preference, discernment, vs. show wealth, autonomy, loyal, tough, skills.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;Personal styles as [noun], [noun], vs. [verb phrase], [noun], [adjective], [adjective], [noun].&#8221;</p>
<p>So painful to read!</p>
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		<title>By: mjgeddes</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2010/06/layers-of-delusion.html#comment-449280</link>
		<dc:creator>mjgeddes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jun 2010 13:15:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overcomingbias.com/?p=23378#comment-449280</guid>
		<description>I have realized that superstimuli play an absolutely central role in conscious experience - to wit, we are all under the control of superstimuli!  Evolutionary psychology may point to the central importance of sex, but remember, &lt;em&gt;the female form itself (sex symbols) becomes a superstimuli when make-up is applied (blusher, lip-stick etc. etc).&lt;/em&gt;

&quot;Industry has devised hyper-stimulating food, art, stories, sport, games, drugs, etc.,&quot;


In short superstimuli weld gobsmacking power over the human mind.    

&quot;...which rich low-self-control folks eagerly consume, at the expense of work, kids, and work-like-hobbies.&quot;

And that&#039;s just human created superstimuli.  Imagine what superstimuli a transhuman could create.  Actually we probably couldn&#039;t imagine.   Suffice it say the prols could be easily controlled, without any actual coercion or even without people realizing they are under control. 

The propoganda techniques first discovered accidently by Nazi Germany actually had their origins in the arts - Hilter was a failed artist and Goebbels was an arts aficionado.  Arts are based on the principles of superstimuli.  Consider that the ability to weld superstimuli effectively literally did enable these evil folks to conquer half of Europe.  

The amount of consumption of superstimuli and the power they weild seems to be massive and out of all proportion ( sports,  drugs and pop culture are only the beginning, consider again political propganda, and the example given above)... 

Consider the sales figures of two different books...

E.T. Jaynes&#039; &quot;Probability Theory: The Logic of Science&quot;  (a few thousand copies)

J.K.Rowling &quot;Harry Potter&quot; series (&lt;strong&gt;400 million&lt;/strong&gt; copies)

Something is going on here that even the Hansons and Bostroms  have missed, no?.  

Considering the power of superstimuli and its association with arts and the cognitive skill of categorization should give Bayesian fan-boys very serious pause as to whether theirs is the ultimate cognitive power.  Black swan warning sirens are wailing somewhere in the distance.  Think it through folks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have realized that superstimuli play an absolutely central role in conscious experience &#8211; to wit, we are all under the control of superstimuli!  Evolutionary psychology may point to the central importance of sex, but remember, <em>the female form itself (sex symbols) becomes a superstimuli when make-up is applied (blusher, lip-stick etc. etc).</em></p>
<p>&#8220;Industry has devised hyper-stimulating food, art, stories, sport, games, drugs, etc.,&#8221;</p>
<p>In short superstimuli weld gobsmacking power over the human mind.    </p>
<p>&#8220;&#8230;which rich low-self-control folks eagerly consume, at the expense of work, kids, and work-like-hobbies.&#8221;</p>
<p>And that&#8217;s just human created superstimuli.  Imagine what superstimuli a transhuman could create.  Actually we probably couldn&#8217;t imagine.   Suffice it say the prols could be easily controlled, without any actual coercion or even without people realizing they are under control. </p>
<p>The propoganda techniques first discovered accidently by Nazi Germany actually had their origins in the arts &#8211; Hilter was a failed artist and Goebbels was an arts aficionado.  Arts are based on the principles of superstimuli.  Consider that the ability to weld superstimuli effectively literally did enable these evil folks to conquer half of Europe.  </p>
<p>The amount of consumption of superstimuli and the power they weild seems to be massive and out of all proportion ( sports,  drugs and pop culture are only the beginning, consider again political propganda, and the example given above)&#8230; </p>
<p>Consider the sales figures of two different books&#8230;</p>
<p>E.T. Jaynes&#8217; &#8220;Probability Theory: The Logic of Science&#8221;  (a few thousand copies)</p>
<p>J.K.Rowling &#8220;Harry Potter&#8221; series (<strong>400 million</strong> copies)</p>
<p>Something is going on here that even the Hansons and Bostroms  have missed, no?.  </p>
<p>Considering the power of superstimuli and its association with arts and the cognitive skill of categorization should give Bayesian fan-boys very serious pause as to whether theirs is the ultimate cognitive power.  Black swan warning sirens are wailing somewhere in the distance.  Think it through folks.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Hardy</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2010/06/layers-of-delusion.html#comment-449270</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Hardy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jun 2010 03:44:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overcomingbias.com/?p=23378#comment-449270</guid>
		<description>&gt; For example, we can be terrified
&gt; of heights, even when we “know”
&gt; we are safe.

Putting the word &quot;know&quot; in quotation marks suggests you don&#039;t intend it to be taken seriously, i.e. we think we know, we say we know, but maybe we don&#039;t really.  Is that what you meant?  Quotation marks tend to de-emphasize a word.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt; For example, we can be terrified<br />
&gt; of heights, even when we “know”<br />
&gt; we are safe.</p>
<p>Putting the word &#8220;know&#8221; in quotation marks suggests you don&#8217;t intend it to be taken seriously, i.e. we think we know, we say we know, but maybe we don&#8217;t really.  Is that what you meant?  Quotation marks tend to de-emphasize a word.</p>
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