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	<title>Comments on: Keeping Us &#8220;Safe&#8221;</title>
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	<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2010/01/keeping-us-safe.html</link>
	<description>Overcoming Bias is economist Robin Hanson’s blog, on honesty, signaling, disagreement, forecasting, and the far future.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 12 Feb 2012 03:06:37 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: James</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2010/01/keeping-us-safe.html#comment-441275</link>
		<dc:creator>James</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Jan 2010 18:43:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overcomingbias.com/?p=21279#comment-441275</guid>
		<description>My university did the same thing.  An attempted shooting at the University of Tulsa was stopped by a brave bystander; the university suppresses most of the story and claimed that their official security force and procedures worked to save the day.  Both people and officials want to believe that the officials are in control and the world is not chaotic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My university did the same thing.  An attempted shooting at the University of Tulsa was stopped by a brave bystander; the university suppresses most of the story and claimed that their official security force and procedures worked to save the day.  Both people and officials want to believe that the officials are in control and the world is not chaotic.</p>
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		<title>By: me</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2010/01/keeping-us-safe.html#comment-440512</link>
		<dc:creator>me</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Jan 2010 19:09:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overcomingbias.com/?p=21279#comment-440512</guid>
		<description>It is indeed possible to contemplate the hypothetical scenario in which intelligence agencies shared information and someone, perhaps a fourteen-year-old in Bakersfield, connected the dots and identified Abdulmutallab as a likely threat.

What then?  I don&#039;t think we&#039;ve thought about this deeply enough.  Let&#039;s say, speaking hypothetically, that every US intelligence agency and law enforcement agency received a fax the previous day about Mr. Abdulmutallab, his plans, and his underwear bomb.

Given the current climate, in which the President and Attorney General appears to be vastly more interested in prosecuting as many US intelligence agency personnel as possible, and even wishes to intervene personally and demand disbarment by fiat of any and all lawyers who did not give sufficiently PC answers when consulted about waterboarding by the previous administration, what do you really think they would have done?

Abdulmutallab is:

a foreigner
non-white
member of a religion known to be very prickly about perceived slights

Who wants to bet that the CIA, FBI, NSA, DHS, Michigan State Police, etc., etc., etc., down to the county dogcatcher, would peel the fax off the machine, read it, re-read it, look at the picture, then think &quot;well, it&#039;s probably only talk, and it&#039;s not worth my job,&quot; &quot;Obama and his bunch make it painfully obvious that their sympathies are with these people,&quot; &quot;I can&#039;t risk that this could be a fraud or a false accusation or a prank,&quot; &quot;well, you know, most anonymous tips we get turn out to be false anyway,&quot; and silently throw it away?

I find it impossible to believe that a great many people in a position to do something about the attack didn&#039;t know everything there was to know about Abdulmutallab, given that he was already on the soi-disant &quot;no fly list.&quot;

I find it very easy to believe that every single one of them pondered the matter, remembered the current POTUS&#039;s penchant for saying &quot;the police acted stupidly,&quot; and decided he did not want to be sued personally by Abdulmutallab&#039;s high-powered defense attorneys provided by CAIR, and did not want Louis Farrakhan and the Nation of Islam picketing his home.

One wonders whether Roman officials around 460 AD were likewise more afraid of lawsuits than of the Huns, more concerned about My-Career than about the lives of the taxpayers for whom they putatively work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is indeed possible to contemplate the hypothetical scenario in which intelligence agencies shared information and someone, perhaps a fourteen-year-old in Bakersfield, connected the dots and identified Abdulmutallab as a likely threat.</p>
<p>What then?  I don&#8217;t think we&#8217;ve thought about this deeply enough.  Let&#8217;s say, speaking hypothetically, that every US intelligence agency and law enforcement agency received a fax the previous day about Mr. Abdulmutallab, his plans, and his underwear bomb.</p>
<p>Given the current climate, in which the President and Attorney General appears to be vastly more interested in prosecuting as many US intelligence agency personnel as possible, and even wishes to intervene personally and demand disbarment by fiat of any and all lawyers who did not give sufficiently PC answers when consulted about waterboarding by the previous administration, what do you really think they would have done?</p>
<p>Abdulmutallab is:</p>
<p>a foreigner<br />
non-white<br />
member of a religion known to be very prickly about perceived slights</p>
<p>Who wants to bet that the CIA, FBI, NSA, DHS, Michigan State Police, etc., etc., etc., down to the county dogcatcher, would peel the fax off the machine, read it, re-read it, look at the picture, then think &#8220;well, it&#8217;s probably only talk, and it&#8217;s not worth my job,&#8221; &#8220;Obama and his bunch make it painfully obvious that their sympathies are with these people,&#8221; &#8220;I can&#8217;t risk that this could be a fraud or a false accusation or a prank,&#8221; &#8220;well, you know, most anonymous tips we get turn out to be false anyway,&#8221; and silently throw it away?</p>
<p>I find it impossible to believe that a great many people in a position to do something about the attack didn&#8217;t know everything there was to know about Abdulmutallab, given that he was already on the soi-disant &#8220;no fly list.&#8221;</p>
<p>I find it very easy to believe that every single one of them pondered the matter, remembered the current POTUS&#8217;s penchant for saying &#8220;the police acted stupidly,&#8221; and decided he did not want to be sued personally by Abdulmutallab&#8217;s high-powered defense attorneys provided by CAIR, and did not want Louis Farrakhan and the Nation of Islam picketing his home.</p>
<p>One wonders whether Roman officials around 460 AD were likewise more afraid of lawsuits than of the Huns, more concerned about My-Career than about the lives of the taxpayers for whom they putatively work.</p>
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		<title>By: Adam Ozimek</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2010/01/keeping-us-safe.html#comment-440212</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam Ozimek</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jan 2010 23:01:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overcomingbias.com/?p=21279#comment-440212</guid>
		<description>Robin,

I think the public is displaying a classic case of Caplan&#039;s rational irrationality. I wrote about it last week here ( http://modeledbehavior.com/2010/01/01/how-to-fight-terrorism-despite-the-publics-rational-irrationality ) and linked to a paper of yours on terrorism futures markets as a suggestion of policies people might demand of they weren&#039;t rationally irrational.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Robin,</p>
<p>I think the public is displaying a classic case of Caplan&#8217;s rational irrationality. I wrote about it last week here ( <a href="http://modeledbehavior.com/2010/01/01/how-to-fight-terrorism-despite-the-publics-rational-irrationality" rel="nofollow">http://modeledbehavior.com/2010/01/01/how-to-fight-terrorism-despite-the-publics-rational-irrationality</a> ) and linked to a paper of yours on terrorism futures markets as a suggestion of policies people might demand of they weren&#8217;t rationally irrational.</p>
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		<title>By: ERIC</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2010/01/keeping-us-safe.html#comment-440202</link>
		<dc:creator>ERIC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jan 2010 19:45:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overcomingbias.com/?p=21279#comment-440202</guid>
		<description>Sure does seem more and more like things simply can&#039;t continue on the course they are going in the US. I hope the US can right itself, I truly do, but I can&#039;t help but think the torch really will be passed to China in the not to distant future...how distant...I don&#039;t know. 

Given how long it took Russia to topple (being way left) and if we agree that the US is becoming increasingly totalitarian in action, I wonder how much longer it will take the US to fall from grace...or will certain states continue to be haves while others remain nots...with widening disparity.

Question I&#039;d like answered using a market: When will China take the &quot;big stick&quot; from the US?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sure does seem more and more like things simply can&#8217;t continue on the course they are going in the US. I hope the US can right itself, I truly do, but I can&#8217;t help but think the torch really will be passed to China in the not to distant future&#8230;how distant&#8230;I don&#8217;t know. </p>
<p>Given how long it took Russia to topple (being way left) and if we agree that the US is becoming increasingly totalitarian in action, I wonder how much longer it will take the US to fall from grace&#8230;or will certain states continue to be haves while others remain nots&#8230;with widening disparity.</p>
<p>Question I&#8217;d like answered using a market: When will China take the &#8220;big stick&#8221; from the US?</p>
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		<title>By: Floccina</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2010/01/keeping-us-safe.html#comment-440190</link>
		<dc:creator>Floccina</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jan 2010 15:40:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overcomingbias.com/?p=21279#comment-440190</guid>
		<description>I am open to the idea that citizens could over protect.  Leaving it to Citizens though more affective could possibly lead to racism and internal conflict.

Related: In a libertarian world do more people swear off all drugs and alcohol completely?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am open to the idea that citizens could over protect.  Leaving it to Citizens though more affective could possibly lead to racism and internal conflict.</p>
<p>Related: In a libertarian world do more people swear off all drugs and alcohol completely?</p>
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		<title>By: Grant</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2010/01/keeping-us-safe.html#comment-440175</link>
		<dc:creator>Grant</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jan 2010 09:54:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overcomingbias.com/?p=21279#comment-440175</guid>
		<description>Has Robin done a post on how much money we waste on airline safety?

Airlines in America are absurdly safe when compared to other forms of travel. All that money put into airline safety could safe lives in other fields, reducing the cost of flying and letting more people fly instead of using other, less-safe forms of travel. Much of this cost isn&#039;t monetary, as agencies like the TSA simply aggravate people into flying less.

I don&#039;t consider this a government failure as much as a human one; people are just paranoid about flying accidents. It seems like free airline markets would over-invest in airline safety as well, though not to the extent the government is.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Has Robin done a post on how much money we waste on airline safety?</p>
<p>Airlines in America are absurdly safe when compared to other forms of travel. All that money put into airline safety could safe lives in other fields, reducing the cost of flying and letting more people fly instead of using other, less-safe forms of travel. Much of this cost isn&#8217;t monetary, as agencies like the TSA simply aggravate people into flying less.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t consider this a government failure as much as a human one; people are just paranoid about flying accidents. It seems like free airline markets would over-invest in airline safety as well, though not to the extent the government is.</p>
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		<title>By: Nick Tarleton</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2010/01/keeping-us-safe.html#comment-440174</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick Tarleton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jan 2010 09:44:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overcomingbias.com/?p=21279#comment-440174</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt; If all this did was create the same level of security and error while shifting costs from the general public to the unluckily profiled, this would be... more just.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

How&#039;s that again?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p> If all this did was create the same level of security and error while shifting costs from the general public to the unluckily profiled, this would be&#8230; more just.</p></blockquote>
<p>How&#8217;s that again?</p>
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		<title>By: William H. Stoddard</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2010/01/keeping-us-safe.html#comment-440171</link>
		<dc:creator>William H. Stoddard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jan 2010 03:12:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overcomingbias.com/?p=21279#comment-440171</guid>
		<description>There&#039;s a folk belief in American society that human life has infinite value. Of course this isn&#039;t true; people don&#039;t value their own lives infinitely, as can be seen by their willingness to accept avoidable risks for convenience, and they certainly don&#039;t value other people&#039;s lives infinitely. But a lot of people don&#039;t want to confront that fact.

Under the compromise that prevailed up until Congress started fiddling with health care, patients didn&#039;t have to confront questions of whether their lives were worth saving, and neither did doctors. Rather, the hard decisions got farmed out to health insurance firms, which then could be treated as scapegoats. Now . . . we&#039;re looking at turning the job over to a government bureaucracy, while swathing its decisions in the comforting rhetoric that surrounds all government bureaucracies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s a folk belief in American society that human life has infinite value. Of course this isn&#8217;t true; people don&#8217;t value their own lives infinitely, as can be seen by their willingness to accept avoidable risks for convenience, and they certainly don&#8217;t value other people&#8217;s lives infinitely. But a lot of people don&#8217;t want to confront that fact.</p>
<p>Under the compromise that prevailed up until Congress started fiddling with health care, patients didn&#8217;t have to confront questions of whether their lives were worth saving, and neither did doctors. Rather, the hard decisions got farmed out to health insurance firms, which then could be treated as scapegoats. Now . . . we&#8217;re looking at turning the job over to a government bureaucracy, while swathing its decisions in the comforting rhetoric that surrounds all government bureaucracies.</p>
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		<title>By: jonathan</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2010/01/keeping-us-safe.html#comment-440169</link>
		<dc:creator>jonathan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jan 2010 02:11:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overcomingbias.com/?p=21279#comment-440169</guid>
		<description>Our society is barely affected by terror and thus it makes sense for us to defer taking personal responsibility. It works the other way in Israel where, because they have had so much terror, individuals regularly have stepped forward to block terrorists. I&#039;m not talking only about private security guards but private individuals. Private citizens have stopped bombers from getting on buses or entering shopping malls and private citizens killed the men who attacked using bull dozers. This isn&#039;t because Israelis are somehow more militaristic - or even because they&#039;ve had army training - but it seems mostly a rational social response to a threat large enough to affect sufficient numbers as to be real for every individual. The odds here are negligible no matter what the government does so we rationally back away from taking control ourselves.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Our society is barely affected by terror and thus it makes sense for us to defer taking personal responsibility. It works the other way in Israel where, because they have had so much terror, individuals regularly have stepped forward to block terrorists. I&#8217;m not talking only about private security guards but private individuals. Private citizens have stopped bombers from getting on buses or entering shopping malls and private citizens killed the men who attacked using bull dozers. This isn&#8217;t because Israelis are somehow more militaristic &#8211; or even because they&#8217;ve had army training &#8211; but it seems mostly a rational social response to a threat large enough to affect sufficient numbers as to be real for every individual. The odds here are negligible no matter what the government does so we rationally back away from taking control ourselves.</p>
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		<title>By: Jason</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2010/01/keeping-us-safe.html#comment-440168</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jan 2010 02:11:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overcomingbias.com/?p=21279#comment-440168</guid>
		<description>@cournot Yes, definitely. More profiling would help us, in the words of Matt Yglesias, prevent some of the zero terrorism-related aircraft deaths since 9-11.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@cournot Yes, definitely. More profiling would help us, in the words of Matt Yglesias, prevent some of the zero terrorism-related aircraft deaths since 9-11.</p>
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