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	<title>Comments on: Helpful Inequality</title>
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	<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2010/01/helpful-inequality.html</link>
	<description>Overcoming Bias is economist Robin Hanson’s blog, on honesty, signaling, disagreement, forecasting, and the far future.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 12 Feb 2012 01:09:57 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Why Do We Need the Rich? &#124; Healthcare</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2010/01/helpful-inequality.html#comment-686899</link>
		<dc:creator>Why Do We Need the Rich? &#124; Healthcare</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jan 2012 09:13:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overcomingbias.com/?p=21324#comment-686899</guid>
		<description>[...] they make investments no one else will make. See Robin Hanson here and here, who points to this NBER [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] they make investments no one else will make. See Robin Hanson here and here, who points to this NBER [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Why Do We Need the Rich? &#124; John Goodman's Health Policy Blog &#124; NCPA.org</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2010/01/helpful-inequality.html#comment-686028</link>
		<dc:creator>Why Do We Need the Rich? &#124; John Goodman's Health Policy Blog &#124; NCPA.org</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jan 2012 18:23:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overcomingbias.com/?p=21324#comment-686028</guid>
		<description>[...] they make investments no one else will make. See Robin Hanson here and here, who points to this NBER [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] they make investments no one else will make. See Robin Hanson here and here, who points to this NBER [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Overcoming Bias : We Need The Very Rich</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2010/01/helpful-inequality.html#comment-668627</link>
		<dc:creator>Overcoming Bias : We Need The Very Rich</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Jan 2012 17:53:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overcomingbias.com/?p=21324#comment-668627</guid>
		<description>[...] Two years ago I posted: [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Two years ago I posted: [...]</p>
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		<title>By: william</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2010/01/helpful-inequality.html#comment-440485</link>
		<dc:creator>william</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Jan 2010 10:39:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overcomingbias.com/?p=21324#comment-440485</guid>
		<description>&quot;Thus we’d probably do better to isolate the worst kids in their own school or work hell; they’d be worse off but the gains to other students would more than compensate.&quot;

Yes, perhaps, but the missing part of this statement is that those who benefited from this arrangement would then have to compensate those who got screwed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Thus we’d probably do better to isolate the worst kids in their own school or work hell; they’d be worse off but the gains to other students would more than compensate.&#8221;</p>
<p>Yes, perhaps, but the missing part of this statement is that those who benefited from this arrangement would then have to compensate those who got screwed.</p>
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		<title>By: Stephen Williams</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2010/01/helpful-inequality.html#comment-440478</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen Williams</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Jan 2010 06:46:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overcomingbias.com/?p=21324#comment-440478</guid>
		<description>Ha, you are pattern matching on the wrong thing.  I&#039;m suggesting steps away from homogeneity, not toward a rigid class system with any kind of predestination.  Everyone has a wide range of where they could end up capability wise.  Much of what actually happens is governed by influences that have little to do with your natural ability.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ha, you are pattern matching on the wrong thing.  I&#8217;m suggesting steps away from homogeneity, not toward a rigid class system with any kind of predestination.  Everyone has a wide range of where they could end up capability wise.  Much of what actually happens is governed by influences that have little to do with your natural ability.</p>
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		<title>By: wkwillis</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2010/01/helpful-inequality.html#comment-440458</link>
		<dc:creator>wkwillis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Jan 2010 00:01:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overcomingbias.com/?p=21324#comment-440458</guid>
		<description>1. Pay kids to learn.
No further problems in high school because the kids are motivated to learn as fast as they can. Before high school kids learn so little that the lower level of schooling simply doesn&#039;t matter.
You do have the problem that very high earnings enable brainiac fifteen year olds to kill themselves driving their convertibles the wrong way down one way streets while a half naked fifteen year old girl is drinking Johnny Walker and doing coke in the shotgun seat...but the sacrifice is worth it, in the opinion of the fifteen year old brainiacs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>1. Pay kids to learn.<br />
No further problems in high school because the kids are motivated to learn as fast as they can. Before high school kids learn so little that the lower level of schooling simply doesn&#8217;t matter.<br />
You do have the problem that very high earnings enable brainiac fifteen year olds to kill themselves driving their convertibles the wrong way down one way streets while a half naked fifteen year old girl is drinking Johnny Walker and doing coke in the shotgun seat&#8230;but the sacrifice is worth it, in the opinion of the fifteen year old brainiacs.</p>
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		<title>By: Ken Rhodes</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2010/01/helpful-inequality.html#comment-440455</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken Rhodes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Jan 2010 23:42:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overcomingbias.com/?p=21324#comment-440455</guid>
		<description>MZ wrote &gt;&gt;I think I would have been better off in high school if I wasn’t required to take electives in art, home economics, and wood shop. I’ve never used that “knowledge” as I don’t even remember it.&gt;&gt;

MZ, my experience is the opposite of yours.  I, too, had to take shop courses I&#039;ve never used, but I think they were VERY valuable, because I came to understand how things are done that, as a software engineer, I would otherwise never have done, and how people work that I would otherwise never worked with.  I don&#039;t propose this as an economic advantage, but just an advantage for &quot;living in the real world.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>MZ wrote &gt;&gt;I think I would have been better off in high school if I wasn’t required to take electives in art, home economics, and wood shop. I’ve never used that “knowledge” as I don’t even remember it.&gt;&gt;</p>
<p>MZ, my experience is the opposite of yours.  I, too, had to take shop courses I&#8217;ve never used, but I think they were VERY valuable, because I came to understand how things are done that, as a software engineer, I would otherwise never have done, and how people work that I would otherwise never worked with.  I don&#8217;t propose this as an economic advantage, but just an advantage for &#8220;living in the real world.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Kynes</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2010/01/helpful-inequality.html#comment-440451</link>
		<dc:creator>Kynes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Jan 2010 23:06:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overcomingbias.com/?p=21324#comment-440451</guid>
		<description>Oh brave new world, that has such people in it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh brave new world, that has such people in it.</p>
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		<title>By: gwern</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2010/01/helpful-inequality.html#comment-440445</link>
		<dc:creator>gwern</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Jan 2010 22:00:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overcomingbias.com/?p=21324#comment-440445</guid>
		<description>7YrsDD: You completely misunderstand me. I&#039;m not sure how that&#039;s possible since I clearly did not envision giving the money away per capita or something silly like that.

If you break up the Walton fortune into 7000 chunks and give 7000 people selected for entrepreneurial possibility 10 million a piece, and this theory is correct, wouldn&#039;t the theory say that we would then see a wave of entrepreneurship from those 7000 which we would not see from the Waltons?

I think any counter-argument would have to invoke negative externalities - focusing on the negative effects of the confiscation/break-up itself, or the distribution; but any such counter-argument can be defeated by rewriting the argument to focus on preventing the creation of such giga-fortunes and favoring smaller fortunes. (For example, inheritance laws could be modified so that giving anyone more than 10 million is heavily penalized but any amount under that is favorably treated.)

Granite26: many people do not invest for those reasons. It&#039;s hard to imagine that the investors in many techie-beloved startups like Tesla seriously expect to make billions of dollars off it; many tech millionaires invest to &#039;do good by doing well&#039; or because the goal is crazy-awesome (John Carmack &amp; Armadillo Aerospace come to mind).

And even if there is a negative effect, we don&#039;t know that it would always and at every level of break-up be worse than its gain. To go back to my example, would breaking up and redistributing the Walton fortune do *so* much damage that the benefits of 7000 entrepreneurs looking to invest in something won&#039;t exceed it?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>7YrsDD: You completely misunderstand me. I&#8217;m not sure how that&#8217;s possible since I clearly did not envision giving the money away per capita or something silly like that.</p>
<p>If you break up the Walton fortune into 7000 chunks and give 7000 people selected for entrepreneurial possibility 10 million a piece, and this theory is correct, wouldn&#8217;t the theory say that we would then see a wave of entrepreneurship from those 7000 which we would not see from the Waltons?</p>
<p>I think any counter-argument would have to invoke negative externalities &#8211; focusing on the negative effects of the confiscation/break-up itself, or the distribution; but any such counter-argument can be defeated by rewriting the argument to focus on preventing the creation of such giga-fortunes and favoring smaller fortunes. (For example, inheritance laws could be modified so that giving anyone more than 10 million is heavily penalized but any amount under that is favorably treated.)</p>
<p>Granite26: many people do not invest for those reasons. It&#8217;s hard to imagine that the investors in many techie-beloved startups like Tesla seriously expect to make billions of dollars off it; many tech millionaires invest to &#8216;do good by doing well&#8217; or because the goal is crazy-awesome (John Carmack &amp; Armadillo Aerospace come to mind).</p>
<p>And even if there is a negative effect, we don&#8217;t know that it would always and at every level of break-up be worse than its gain. To go back to my example, would breaking up and redistributing the Walton fortune do *so* much damage that the benefits of 7000 entrepreneurs looking to invest in something won&#8217;t exceed it?</p>
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		<title>By: Stephen Williams</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2010/01/helpful-inequality.html#comment-440432</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen Williams</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Jan 2010 20:02:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overcomingbias.com/?p=21324#comment-440432</guid>
		<description>From:
http://sdw.st/wp/world/commentary/re-fork-helpful-inequality

From a social and cultural point of view, mixed in with rule breaking and exploration in High School, separating people makes a lot of sense.  Hard to arrange it just so, but possible.  Right now, most communities either force everyone together or have a cliff where kids are thrown off of into the pit of the &quot;other&quot; school.  The nature and quality of the &quot;other&quot; options is what separates good districts from bad districts, but few or none do it right yet.  Ideally, you need to keep fluidity so that one false move or bad quarter doesn&#039;t doom you to the dungeon.  As long as there is rapid mobility between realms, it is a great idea.  Unfortunately, often the insidious things start small and aren&#039;t clearly a problem until long after they have become infused in a clique.  Making negative effects of attitude, habits, and choices apparent much sooner would be very good.  Feedback loops longer than a few weeks are useless to a large chunk of teenagers.  And any extremely discontinuous penalties lead to fatalism in some significant subgroup. 

The problem is that many with wealth aren&#039;t A) adventurous and B) don&#039;t feel enough social responsibility to start businesses or otherwise directly foster the creative engines.  Many have been convinced that they are doing that by investing in the stock market or some other indirect feeding of the Big Business Machine.  I feel that, in the average case, that is exactly like thinking that you are directly helping the homeless guy you saw today by paying more Federal taxes.

I firmly feel it is my responsibility to, after doing as well as I can with my children and significant others, to use my skills to A) do the most good and, given A, B) make the most money so that I can find new ways to do or help other people do A.  Having wealth creates a responsibility to perform at least as much as having high ability.  Being neutral or negative in effect on the world is the only real sin there is.

For any wealthy individuals who truly pursue and directly support entrepreneurialism in a consistent and significant way, I would vote for zero taxes during those years they are cogent and active.  When they are successful, I&#039;d even vote for a rebate on some of the tax revenue they created (probably for some specific situations).  For those hoarding and riding their wealth, I would double their taxes (or something along those lines).  I totally applaud the former and despise, to some degree, the latter.  And I despise societies that make the former harder than it is naturally, often by directly protecting big business thereby enshrining reverse economies of scale out of fear or ignorance.  (Japan perhaps?  France probably -- their socialistish environment for small businesses is onerous.)

On the relatively poor entrepreneurs starting businesses, they tend to disappear more often, however they are more driven and are able to take existential risks more to some extent.  Different businesses may require different types of actors for competitive success.

sdw</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From:<br />
<a href="http://sdw.st/wp/world/commentary/re-fork-helpful-inequality" rel="nofollow">http://sdw.st/wp/world/commentary/re-fork-helpful-inequality</a></p>
<p>From a social and cultural point of view, mixed in with rule breaking and exploration in High School, separating people makes a lot of sense.  Hard to arrange it just so, but possible.  Right now, most communities either force everyone together or have a cliff where kids are thrown off of into the pit of the &#8220;other&#8221; school.  The nature and quality of the &#8220;other&#8221; options is what separates good districts from bad districts, but few or none do it right yet.  Ideally, you need to keep fluidity so that one false move or bad quarter doesn&#8217;t doom you to the dungeon.  As long as there is rapid mobility between realms, it is a great idea.  Unfortunately, often the insidious things start small and aren&#8217;t clearly a problem until long after they have become infused in a clique.  Making negative effects of attitude, habits, and choices apparent much sooner would be very good.  Feedback loops longer than a few weeks are useless to a large chunk of teenagers.  And any extremely discontinuous penalties lead to fatalism in some significant subgroup. </p>
<p>The problem is that many with wealth aren&#8217;t A) adventurous and B) don&#8217;t feel enough social responsibility to start businesses or otherwise directly foster the creative engines.  Many have been convinced that they are doing that by investing in the stock market or some other indirect feeding of the Big Business Machine.  I feel that, in the average case, that is exactly like thinking that you are directly helping the homeless guy you saw today by paying more Federal taxes.</p>
<p>I firmly feel it is my responsibility to, after doing as well as I can with my children and significant others, to use my skills to A) do the most good and, given A, B) make the most money so that I can find new ways to do or help other people do A.  Having wealth creates a responsibility to perform at least as much as having high ability.  Being neutral or negative in effect on the world is the only real sin there is.</p>
<p>For any wealthy individuals who truly pursue and directly support entrepreneurialism in a consistent and significant way, I would vote for zero taxes during those years they are cogent and active.  When they are successful, I&#8217;d even vote for a rebate on some of the tax revenue they created (probably for some specific situations).  For those hoarding and riding their wealth, I would double their taxes (or something along those lines).  I totally applaud the former and despise, to some degree, the latter.  And I despise societies that make the former harder than it is naturally, often by directly protecting big business thereby enshrining reverse economies of scale out of fear or ignorance.  (Japan perhaps?  France probably &#8212; their socialistish environment for small businesses is onerous.)</p>
<p>On the relatively poor entrepreneurs starting businesses, they tend to disappear more often, however they are more driven and are able to take existential risks more to some extent.  Different businesses may require different types of actors for competitive success.</p>
<p>sdw</p>
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