Comments on: Docs vs MBAs

By: Matthew C.

Matthew C. — Wed, 30 Dec 2009 16:29:27 +0000

The bullshitty aspects of Six Sigma are interesting.

Yes, and there are right many. . .

By: Tree Frog

Tree Frog — Wed, 30 Dec 2009 06:01:33 +0000

I wondered about the feasibility of small hospital-subsidized “experimental divisions” – like some sort of medical Q branch, where seasoned docs try out different devices and techniques related to their specialty only.

My vision: The patients would pay less money – due to the experimental nature of the care, the doctors would get a salary on the lower end with bonuses for upticks in patient survival and health that can be attributed to their recommendations, and the sales reps would have a known set of contacts for the hospital at large.

I know the military has unofficial experimenters for just about every kind of gear possible and that process seems to suss out the better ones (with a pretty high failure rate for the unfit products).

By: Grant

Grant — Wed, 30 Dec 2009 05:46:52 +0000

I would imagine that patients dying would lead to bad sales for their products.

Got any evidence of that? That’s not how things usually work in medicine.

It may not hurt as much as we’d like it to, but certainly doesn’t help sell their product.

Professionals in the medical device industry can easily know more about how to use their product than doctors, and may know more about how to perform certain kinds of surgery. Of course this doesn’t mean they are as good at it (as they’ve probably never done it), but they can be a very good source of knowledge.

The article is not painting the worst-case scenario, by far. Many doctors call tech support lines for help, sometimes needing assistance with general techniques (an example that comes to mind is how to correctly use a torque wrench to screw an abutment into a dental implant). The people answering these lines definitely don’t have MBAs (not that I see that as a problem; lower skilled people assisting in or performing medical procedures can easily be a good thing).

By: Weasel

Weasel — Wed, 30 Dec 2009 04:43:20 +0000

Much more basic than the questions about the sales reps motivation, I am alarmed by the apparent acceptance of the idea that the sales rep actually understands the technology he’s pushing. While my experience is admittedly all outside the medical field, rule number one, don’t believe anything the sales rep says about what the product can do or how it works, make sure to read and understand all technical documentation yourself or you will be sorry. They never understand it as well as they think they do.

By: Hopefully Anonymous

Hopefully Anonymous — Wed, 30 Dec 2009 04:08:49 +0000

Good wikipedia page. The bullshitty aspects of Six Sigma are interesting.

By: Matt

Matt — Wed, 30 Dec 2009 03:42:32 +0000

First, if a salesman has incentives to sell medical products even if they are bad for you, wouldn’t they also have the same incentives to sell medical porducts even if they’re good for you? I’m sure most (or all) medical supply companies strive to get a good reputation, even more so than they strive to get dead stock off their shelves (at least at the margins).

Second, standards for Med students may be high, but they are not infinite. If a Med student spends 10 years learning hundreds of thousands of intricacies about treating humans, why wouldn’t you trust someone who had six months training on one specific treatment? By my calculations, that would make the sales rep more capable. And the rep wasn’t even doing the procedure. He was probably just repeating what higher paid doctors that work at his R&D department told him.

By: Eliezer Yudkowsky

Eliezer Yudkowsky — Tue, 29 Dec 2009 23:46:24 +0000

I would imagine that patients dying would lead to bad sales for their products.

Got any evidence of that? That’s not how things usually work in medicine.

By: Joseph Hertzlinger

Joseph Hertzlinger — Tue, 29 Dec 2009 23:06:05 +0000

In related news, last year Overcoming Bias reported on a study that showed that physicians from top schools could lower medical costs. It looks like business schools are giving medical training and medical schools are giving business training.

By: Jaffa_Cakes

Jaffa_Cakes — Tue, 29 Dec 2009 22:27:01 +0000

Hahaha

The best articles on here are the ones where Robin allows himself to get a little bit arsey and sarcastic.

When a post is delivered in that hyper-rational tone he sometimes uses I am always tempted to comment “once more, with emotion”.

By: Matthew C.

Matthew C. — Tue, 29 Dec 2009 22:12:24 +0000

Heh. You mean Six Sigma, not Sigma Six. I've done the first, and my son has purchased the second.