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	<title>Comments on: Require Baby Paternity Test</title>
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	<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/11/require-baby-paternity-test.html</link>
	<description>Overcoming Bias is economist Robin Hanson’s blog, on honesty, signaling, disagreement, forecasting, and the far future.</description>
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		<title>By: Robin Hanson</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/11/require-baby-paternity-test.html#comment-438438</link>
		<dc:creator>Robin Hanson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Dec 2009 01:29:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overcomingbias.com/?p=20546#comment-438438</guid>
		<description>Douglas Galbi emailed me this comment to post:

The cited article claims:
&lt;blockquote&gt;The most extensive and authoritative report...concluded that 2 percent of men with &quot;high paternity confidence&quot; — married men who had every reason to believe they were their children’s father — were, in fact, not biological parents.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
The suppressed reference is to a &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.anth.uconn.edu/degree_programs/ecolevo/kermyt.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;meta-analysis by Anderson&lt;/a&gt;, appearing in Current Anthropology in 2006. The analyzed studies do not specify their samples as &quot;married men who had every reason to believe they were their children&#039;s father&quot;. Moreover, the specification of the 2% statistic isn&#039;t correct. A &lt;a href=&quot;http://purplemotes.net/2009/12/13/social-fundamentals/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;more comprehensive review of non-paternity statistics&lt;/a&gt; suggests that roughly 5% of children in high-income countries falsely identify their biological father.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Douglas Galbi emailed me this comment to post:</p>
<p>The cited article claims:</p>
<blockquote><p>The most extensive and authoritative report&#8230;concluded that 2 percent of men with &#8220;high paternity confidence&#8221; — married men who had every reason to believe they were their children’s father — were, in fact, not biological parents.</p></blockquote>
<p>The suppressed reference is to a <a href="http://www.anth.uconn.edu/degree_programs/ecolevo/kermyt.pdf" rel="nofollow">meta-analysis by Anderson</a>, appearing in Current Anthropology in 2006. The analyzed studies do not specify their samples as &#8220;married men who had every reason to believe they were their children&#8217;s father&#8221;. Moreover, the specification of the 2% statistic isn&#8217;t correct. A <a href="http://purplemotes.net/2009/12/13/social-fundamentals/" rel="nofollow">more comprehensive review of non-paternity statistics</a> suggests that roughly 5% of children in high-income countries falsely identify their biological father.</p>
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		<title>By: Robin Hanson</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/11/require-baby-paternity-test.html#comment-438362</link>
		<dc:creator>Robin Hanson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Dec 2009 16:30:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overcomingbias.com/?p=20546#comment-438362</guid>
		<description>I just added to this post.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just added to this post.</p>
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		<title>By: Douglas Galbi</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/11/require-baby-paternity-test.html#comment-438335</link>
		<dc:creator>Douglas Galbi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Dec 2009 05:11:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overcomingbias.com/?p=20546#comment-438335</guid>
		<description>The cited article claims:
&lt;blockquote&gt;The most extensive and authoritative report...concluded that 2 percent of men with &quot;high paternity confidence&quot; — married men who had every reason to believe they were their children’s father — were, in fact, not biological parents.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
The suppressed reference is to a &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.anth.uconn.edu/degree_programs/ecolevo/kermyt.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;meta-analysis by Anderson&lt;/a&gt;, appearing in Current Anthropology in 2006.  The  analyzed studies do not specify their samples as &quot;married men who had every reason to believe they were their children&#039;s father&quot;.  Moreover, the specification of the 2% statistic isn&#039;t correct.  A &lt;a href=&quot;http://purplemotes.net/2009/12/13/social-fundamentals/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;more comprehensive review of non-paternity statistics&lt;/a&gt; suggests that roughly 5% of children in high-income countries falsely identify their biological father.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The cited article claims:</p>
<blockquote><p>The most extensive and authoritative report&#8230;concluded that 2 percent of men with &#8220;high paternity confidence&#8221; — married men who had every reason to believe they were their children’s father — were, in fact, not biological parents.</p></blockquote>
<p>The suppressed reference is to a <a href="http://www.anth.uconn.edu/degree_programs/ecolevo/kermyt.pdf" rel="nofollow">meta-analysis by Anderson</a>, appearing in Current Anthropology in 2006.  The  analyzed studies do not specify their samples as &#8220;married men who had every reason to believe they were their children&#8217;s father&#8221;.  Moreover, the specification of the 2% statistic isn&#8217;t correct.  A <a href="http://purplemotes.net/2009/12/13/social-fundamentals/" rel="nofollow">more comprehensive review of non-paternity statistics</a> suggests that roughly 5% of children in high-income countries falsely identify their biological father.</p>
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		<title>By: John Sabotta</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/11/require-baby-paternity-test.html#comment-438118</link>
		<dc:creator>John Sabotta</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Dec 2009 01:19:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overcomingbias.com/?p=20546#comment-438118</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Anyone remotely aware of the existence of axiomatic libertarians can already have predicted their position and argument and already know what they think of that.&lt;/blockquote&gt; 

...says the Bayesian superman. Well, I think that your response to being shoved head-first into a wood chipper would be equally &quot;predictable&quot; and boring and &quot;axiomatic&quot;, Hanson. But the tedious predictability of your generic uniformative complaints (screams, unimaginative and repetitive shrieking, etc.) still doesn&#039;t give anyone the right t\o turn you into Hanson puree. 

Roissy +Hanson. The nerd will to power unleashed! (Make sure you wash your hands afterwards, though.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Anyone remotely aware of the existence of axiomatic libertarians can already have predicted their position and argument and already know what they think of that.</p></blockquote>
<p>&#8230;says the Bayesian superman. Well, I think that your response to being shoved head-first into a wood chipper would be equally &#8220;predictable&#8221; and boring and &#8220;axiomatic&#8221;, Hanson. But the tedious predictability of your generic uniformative complaints (screams, unimaginative and repetitive shrieking, etc.) still doesn&#8217;t give anyone the right t\o turn you into Hanson puree. </p>
<p>Roissy +Hanson. The nerd will to power unleashed! (Make sure you wash your hands afterwards, though.)</p>
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		<title>By: Alex</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/11/require-baby-paternity-test.html#comment-437547</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Dec 2009 22:37:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overcomingbias.com/?p=20546#comment-437547</guid>
		<description>Possibly. I&#039;m sure in some cases, you are right. But I imagine there some percentage of women would feel guilty doing such a thing to the person they love (I realise they may not love them, but surely at least some do). I was only generating a plausible case - as I stated, how common that case is empirically is up for debate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Possibly. I&#8217;m sure in some cases, you are right. But I imagine there some percentage of women would feel guilty doing such a thing to the person they love (I realise they may not love them, but surely at least some do). I was only generating a plausible case &#8211; as I stated, how common that case is empirically is up for debate.</p>
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		<title>By: Alex</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/11/require-baby-paternity-test.html#comment-437546</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Dec 2009 22:34:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overcomingbias.com/?p=20546#comment-437546</guid>
		<description>&quot; “If you knew of all the times people had bitched about you, not found you attractive when you thought they did, lied to you to keep you happy, etc, then your life (very plausibly) would be worse.”

Perhaps so, but only to the extent that people wrongly expect to be “better than average” in these respects. Arguably, overconfidence is a dangerous tendency which should not be encouraged.&quot;

I don&#039;t know about this. Even if the charges against you are true - that you are ugly, say, and you know this - your life is still made worse if people constantly tell you so, and you know about all the times people say so behind you back. I don&#039;t think overconfidence is really the issue.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8221; “If you knew of all the times people had bitched about you, not found you attractive when you thought they did, lied to you to keep you happy, etc, then your life (very plausibly) would be worse.”</p>
<p>Perhaps so, but only to the extent that people wrongly expect to be “better than average” in these respects. Arguably, overconfidence is a dangerous tendency which should not be encouraged.&#8221;</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know about this. Even if the charges against you are true &#8211; that you are ugly, say, and you know this &#8211; your life is still made worse if people constantly tell you so, and you know about all the times people say so behind you back. I don&#8217;t think overconfidence is really the issue.</p>
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		<title>By: Alex</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/11/require-baby-paternity-test.html#comment-437545</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Dec 2009 22:31:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overcomingbias.com/?p=20546#comment-437545</guid>
		<description>@Grant:

&quot;Would the husband be bothered by this?&quot;

But Grant, this is exactly the point I was trying to make - the husband (in my scenario) &lt;em&gt;never finds out&lt;/em&gt; the child is not his! Of course if he was told and given proof, then he would be bothered (I assume). But I am thinking of the cases where he never knows. In that case is he harmed?

This is what I meant when I said the defence is either philosophical or empirical. You can either argue that even when the husband never knows the child is not his, he is still harmed (I see you have made an evolutionary argument in that direction), or you can argue that there won&#039;t be many cases where everyone is made worse off by MPT. Or you could argue both, of course.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Grant:</p>
<p>&#8220;Would the husband be bothered by this?&#8221;</p>
<p>But Grant, this is exactly the point I was trying to make &#8211; the husband (in my scenario) <em>never finds out</em> the child is not his! Of course if he was told and given proof, then he would be bothered (I assume). But I am thinking of the cases where he never knows. In that case is he harmed?</p>
<p>This is what I meant when I said the defence is either philosophical or empirical. You can either argue that even when the husband never knows the child is not his, he is still harmed (I see you have made an evolutionary argument in that direction), or you can argue that there won&#8217;t be many cases where everyone is made worse off by MPT. Or you could argue both, of course.</p>
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		<title>By: Ex Tango</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/11/require-baby-paternity-test.html#comment-437436</link>
		<dc:creator>Ex Tango</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Dec 2009 04:42:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overcomingbias.com/?p=20546#comment-437436</guid>
		<description>&quot;Mandatory&quot; birth defect screening tests at hospitals have an opt-out option.  Anything else would be an unconstitutional seizure of one&#039;s person.  It&#039;s mandatory in the sense that the government makes the tests automatic, without the parents asking for them, but the parents can ALWAYS refuse the tests.  What you&#039;re advocating is FORCED paternity testing, to protect idiots from themselves.  (It&#039;s not like mail-order paternity tests are hard to get or illegal, after all.) That&#039;s OK if you&#039;re a liberal nanny-state socialist, I guess ...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Mandatory&#8221; birth defect screening tests at hospitals have an opt-out option.  Anything else would be an unconstitutional seizure of one&#8217;s person.  It&#8217;s mandatory in the sense that the government makes the tests automatic, without the parents asking for them, but the parents can ALWAYS refuse the tests.  What you&#8217;re advocating is FORCED paternity testing, to protect idiots from themselves.  (It&#8217;s not like mail-order paternity tests are hard to get or illegal, after all.) That&#8217;s OK if you&#8217;re a liberal nanny-state socialist, I guess &#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: anon</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/11/require-baby-paternity-test.html#comment-437435</link>
		<dc:creator>anon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Dec 2009 03:51:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overcomingbias.com/?p=20546#comment-437435</guid>
		<description>&quot;If you knew of all the times people had bitched about you, not found you attractive when you thought they did, lied to you to keep you happy, etc, then your life (very plausibly) would be worse.&quot;

Perhaps so, but only to the extent that people wrongly expect to be &quot;better than average&quot; in these respects.  Arguably, overconfidence is a dangerous tendency which should not be encouraged.

The issue of emotional harm to someone who discovers they&#039;ve been cuckolded can be solved via insurance.  If the child is yours, you lose some money but you also gain by knowing your status with certainty; otherwise you get compensated.  There will be some issues due to imperfect information, but the overall result is that those who care enough about the issue will take the test, and everyone else won&#039;t.

I do think that not allowing an &quot;opt-out&quot; from the test would be problematic, since many people will not want to know and that choice should be respected.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;If you knew of all the times people had bitched about you, not found you attractive when you thought they did, lied to you to keep you happy, etc, then your life (very plausibly) would be worse.&#8221;</p>
<p>Perhaps so, but only to the extent that people wrongly expect to be &#8220;better than average&#8221; in these respects.  Arguably, overconfidence is a dangerous tendency which should not be encouraged.</p>
<p>The issue of emotional harm to someone who discovers they&#8217;ve been cuckolded can be solved via insurance.  If the child is yours, you lose some money but you also gain by knowing your status with certainty; otherwise you get compensated.  There will be some issues due to imperfect information, but the overall result is that those who care enough about the issue will take the test, and everyone else won&#8217;t.</p>
<p>I do think that not allowing an &#8220;opt-out&#8221; from the test would be problematic, since many people will not want to know and that choice should be respected.</p>
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		<title>By: GT</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/11/require-baby-paternity-test.html#comment-437432</link>
		<dc:creator>GT</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Dec 2009 02:06:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overcomingbias.com/?p=20546#comment-437432</guid>
		<description>&quot;The mother is guilty, but that lessens over time and she takes great pleasure from her home life.&quot;

I would take great pleasure in knowing I just got away with infidelity and some poor sap is paying for my screw up. Wouldn&#039;t you?????</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The mother is guilty, but that lessens over time and she takes great pleasure from her home life.&#8221;</p>
<p>I would take great pleasure in knowing I just got away with infidelity and some poor sap is paying for my screw up. Wouldn&#8217;t you?????</p>
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