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	<title>Comments on: Take Both Econ, Techies Seriously</title>
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	<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/10/take-both-econ-tech-seriously.html</link>
	<description>Overcoming Bias is economist Robin Hanson’s blog, on honesty, signaling, disagreement, forecasting, and the far future.</description>
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		<title>By: Martin Ford Asks: Will Automation Lead to Economic Collapse? &#171; hims47</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/10/take-both-econ-tech-seriously.html#comment-524311</link>
		<dc:creator>Martin Ford Asks: Will Automation Lead to Economic Collapse? &#171; hims47</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Oct 2011 10:38:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overcomingbias.com/?p=20216#comment-524311</guid>
		<description>[...] first critique of one of Hanson’s academic papers here, Hanson’s response to that critique here, and Ford’s retort here. It’s hard to summarize the eventual tone of the debate, but I think [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] first critique of one of Hanson’s academic papers here, Hanson’s response to that critique here, and Ford’s retort here. It’s hard to summarize the eventual tone of the debate, but I think [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Overcoming Bias : My CQ Researcher OpEd</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/10/take-both-econ-tech-seriously.html#comment-471158</link>
		<dc:creator>Overcoming Bias : My CQ Researcher OpEd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Apr 2011 03:01:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overcomingbias.com/?p=20216#comment-471158</guid>
		<description>[...] Alas they didn&#8217;t tell me the idea was for me to say &#8220;No&#8221; opposite Martin Ford saying &#8220;Yes&#8221; &#8211; we both said &#8220;Yes.&#8221; They&#8217;d have done better to [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Alas they didn&#8217;t tell me the idea was for me to say &#8220;No&#8221; opposite Martin Ford saying &#8220;Yes&#8221; &#8211; we both said &#8220;Yes.&#8221; They&#8217;d have done better to [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Asymptosis &#187; Robin Hanson&#8217;s Reply to the Luddites</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/10/take-both-econ-tech-seriously.html#comment-469148</link>
		<dc:creator>Asymptosis &#187; Robin Hanson&#8217;s Reply to the Luddites</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Apr 2011 00:22:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overcomingbias.com/?p=20216#comment-469148</guid>
		<description>[...] did touch on this area in a post that I read quite carefully when it came out a while back, responding to a fellow Luddite&#8217;s [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] did touch on this area in a post that I read quite carefully when it came out a while back, responding to a fellow Luddite&#8217;s [...]</p>
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		<title>By: David Pennock</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/10/take-both-econ-tech-seriously.html#comment-451758</link>
		<dc:creator>David Pennock</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Aug 2010 01:29:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overcomingbias.com/?p=20216#comment-451758</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.marshallbrain.com/robotic-nation.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Robotic Nation&lt;/a&gt; by Marshall Brain
 is a fun read and sounds very similar: Rapid progress in AI and robotics may bring about mass unemployment and economic collapse. It is well written, compelling, an thought provoking, and Brain gets many things right until he starts delving into the economics and his arguments seems to go astray.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.marshallbrain.com/robotic-nation.htm" rel="nofollow">Robotic Nation</a> by Marshall Brain<br />
 is a fun read and sounds very similar: Rapid progress in AI and robotics may bring about mass unemployment and economic collapse. It is well written, compelling, an thought provoking, and Brain gets many things right until he starts delving into the economics and his arguments seems to go astray.</p>
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		<title>By: Tracy W</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/10/take-both-econ-tech-seriously.html#comment-438558</link>
		<dc:creator>Tracy W</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Dec 2009 17:47:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overcomingbias.com/?p=20216#comment-438558</guid>
		<description>Well the theory of comparative advantage is a theory of comparative advantage, in other words both members have to be able to produce at least two things. The point of the theory is to address the situation where one party is more productive than the other at everything.

The situation of you only able to produce wheat strikes me as more equivalent to the situation of supporting people who are incapable of supporting themselves. A more realistic comparator to your hypothetical person who can only produce wheat is, say, someone in the post-traumatic amnesia stage of a severe brain injury who can&#039;t produce anything. The only answers I have heard for that situation are charity or government provision of a basic income. 
As a practical matter, I can&#039;t think of a single case where a real human being can produce wheat but not anything else.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well the theory of comparative advantage is a theory of comparative advantage, in other words both members have to be able to produce at least two things. The point of the theory is to address the situation where one party is more productive than the other at everything.</p>
<p>The situation of you only able to produce wheat strikes me as more equivalent to the situation of supporting people who are incapable of supporting themselves. A more realistic comparator to your hypothetical person who can only produce wheat is, say, someone in the post-traumatic amnesia stage of a severe brain injury who can&#8217;t produce anything. The only answers I have heard for that situation are charity or government provision of a basic income.<br />
As a practical matter, I can&#8217;t think of a single case where a real human being can produce wheat but not anything else.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim Fowler</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/10/take-both-econ-tech-seriously.html#comment-435678</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Fowler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 19:27:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overcomingbias.com/?p=20216#comment-435678</guid>
		<description>Jay - Re: &quot;It’s not crazy to think that, overall, this process will result in lasting disadvantage to sellers of labor (most people), with owners of capital and providers of raw materials capturing more of the value of the economy.&quot;

  Its certainly not crazy to think that it may result in a lasting or growing relative disadvantage to sellers of labor, but if production gets cheaper that relative disadvantage can still be with an absolute advantage as you get a smaller portion of a bigger pie, and your piece still is larger even if its grown only half, or even only a millionth as much as some others.

  Also people, esp. over the long term, respond to such changes and incentives in complex ways.  Even just in terms of voluntary economics people will learn new ways to be useful to those with wealth.  Also you have the possibility for political redistribution.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jay &#8211; Re: &#8220;It’s not crazy to think that, overall, this process will result in lasting disadvantage to sellers of labor (most people), with owners of capital and providers of raw materials capturing more of the value of the economy.&#8221;</p>
<p>  Its certainly not crazy to think that it may result in a lasting or growing relative disadvantage to sellers of labor, but if production gets cheaper that relative disadvantage can still be with an absolute advantage as you get a smaller portion of a bigger pie, and your piece still is larger even if its grown only half, or even only a millionth as much as some others.</p>
<p>  Also people, esp. over the long term, respond to such changes and incentives in complex ways.  Even just in terms of voluntary economics people will learn new ways to be useful to those with wealth.  Also you have the possibility for political redistribution.</p>
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		<title>By: denis bider</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/10/take-both-econ-tech-seriously.html#comment-435609</link>
		<dc:creator>denis bider</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Nov 2009 05:50:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overcomingbias.com/?p=20216#comment-435609</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s too bad that this blog doesn&#039;t have up-voting, so I&#039;m commenting to &quot;up-vote&quot; this. I was laughing and clapping as I read this. Yes, this seems precisely how it is.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s too bad that this blog doesn&#8217;t have up-voting, so I&#8217;m commenting to &#8220;up-vote&#8221; this. I was laughing and clapping as I read this. Yes, this seems precisely how it is.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Roth</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/10/take-both-econ-tech-seriously.html#comment-435541</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Roth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Nov 2009 14:31:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overcomingbias.com/?p=20216#comment-435541</guid>
		<description>I thin Robin ignores three things:

1. Utility curves. We know that above (approx) $15K a year, increases in income yield little increase in happiness. So those &quot;luxury&quot; goods are less valuable, meaning producers can&#039;t sell them for enough (in aggregate) to make a living.

2. The remarkable efficiency of technology-driven corporate capitalism is also a remarkably efficient pump pushing wealth to the top. With high enough productivity (one person with a computer making everything?), this could overwhelm the price cuts that people down the ladder experience.

3. The massive productivity gains of recent centuries have been accompanied by massive increases in government redistribution. There&#039;s not one thriving, prosperous country that doesn&#039;t have a mongo huge dose of it.

Is it possible that that redistribution is necessary to maintain aggregate demand so a high-productivity economy can thrive and prosper? 

&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.asymptosis.com/why-prosperity-requires-a-welfare-state.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Why Prosperity Requires a Welfare State&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I thin Robin ignores three things:</p>
<p>1. Utility curves. We know that above (approx) $15K a year, increases in income yield little increase in happiness. So those &#8220;luxury&#8221; goods are less valuable, meaning producers can&#8217;t sell them for enough (in aggregate) to make a living.</p>
<p>2. The remarkable efficiency of technology-driven corporate capitalism is also a remarkably efficient pump pushing wealth to the top. With high enough productivity (one person with a computer making everything?), this could overwhelm the price cuts that people down the ladder experience.</p>
<p>3. The massive productivity gains of recent centuries have been accompanied by massive increases in government redistribution. There&#8217;s not one thriving, prosperous country that doesn&#8217;t have a mongo huge dose of it.</p>
<p>Is it possible that that redistribution is necessary to maintain aggregate demand so a high-productivity economy can thrive and prosper? </p>
<p><a href="http://www.asymptosis.com/why-prosperity-requires-a-welfare-state.html" rel="nofollow">Why Prosperity Requires a Welfare State</a></p>
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		<title>By: Jay</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/10/take-both-econ-tech-seriously.html#comment-435528</link>
		<dc:creator>Jay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 19:07:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overcomingbias.com/?p=20216#comment-435528</guid>
		<description>Minimum wage laws and regulations can cause unemployment, but are not the sole cause of unemployment.  The requirements of subsistence set an effective minimum wage.

In Victorian England, there was a widely understood principle that the equilibrium wage of the working class was the wage that kept the working population constant (the &quot;Iron Law of Wages&quot;).  If pay goes down from that level, malnutrition and disease kills workers.  The labor supply therefore falls and wages rise.  The reverse takes more time, as children take time to grow.  

So far, this insight has not seemed relevant to North America, because the continent has been relatively unpopulated.  Of course, the population keeps growing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Minimum wage laws and regulations can cause unemployment, but are not the sole cause of unemployment.  The requirements of subsistence set an effective minimum wage.</p>
<p>In Victorian England, there was a widely understood principle that the equilibrium wage of the working class was the wage that kept the working population constant (the &#8220;Iron Law of Wages&#8221;).  If pay goes down from that level, malnutrition and disease kills workers.  The labor supply therefore falls and wages rise.  The reverse takes more time, as children take time to grow.  </p>
<p>So far, this insight has not seemed relevant to North America, because the continent has been relatively unpopulated.  Of course, the population keeps growing.</p>
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		<title>By: Mirco</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/10/take-both-econ-tech-seriously.html#comment-435521</link>
		<dc:creator>Mirco</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 16:34:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overcomingbias.com/?p=20216#comment-435521</guid>
		<description>Ricardo Law of Comparative Advantage start not working if taxation and regulation rise the costs of hired workers enough.
When the cost to do something by themselves become lower than the cost to hire someone else and pay taxes.
This is because there is a so high unemplyement in the western world.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ricardo Law of Comparative Advantage start not working if taxation and regulation rise the costs of hired workers enough.<br />
When the cost to do something by themselves become lower than the cost to hire someone else and pay taxes.<br />
This is because there is a so high unemplyement in the western world.</p>
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