Comments on: In Praise Of Blackmail http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/10/in-praise-of-extortion.html Overcoming Bias is economist Robin Hanson’s blog, on honesty, signaling, disagreement, forecasting, and the far future. Sun, 12 Feb 2012 01:09:57 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.3 By: Why I Am Not an Extreme Libertarian « Politics & Prosperity http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/10/in-praise-of-extortion.html#comment-491319 Why I Am Not an Extreme Libertarian « Politics & Prosperity Mon, 08 Aug 2011 22:24:38 +0000 http://www.overcomingbias.com/?p=19963#comment-491319 [...] and not in a good way. His upside-down view of humanity leads him to defend blackmail (e.g., here, here, and [...] [...] and not in a good way. His upside-down view of humanity leads him to defend blackmail (e.g., here, here, and [...]

]]> By: Overcoming Bias : Charity Blackmail? http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/10/in-praise-of-extortion.html#comment-490340 Overcoming Bias : Charity Blackmail? Sat, 06 Aug 2011 21:38:12 +0000 http://www.overcomingbias.com/?p=19963#comment-490340 [...] to air Thursday. This time I’ll be defending blackmail, a subject I’ve discussed here, here, here. In preparation, I’ve just reviewed twenty academic papers on the [...] [...] to air Thursday. This time I’ll be defending blackmail, a subject I’ve discussed here, here, here. In preparation, I’ve just reviewed twenty academic papers on the [...]

]]> By: Overcoming Bias : Rah Efficient IP http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/10/in-praise-of-extortion.html#comment-488050 Overcoming Bias : Rah Efficient IP Fri, 29 Jul 2011 15:21:00 +0000 http://www.overcomingbias.com/?p=19963#comment-488050 [...] this efficiency basis, I’ve defended many controversial policies, such as blackmail or polygamy. But oddly, I seem to elicit the most outrage by defending the mere possibility of [...] [...] this efficiency basis, I’ve defended many controversial policies, such as blackmail or polygamy. But oddly, I seem to elicit the most outrage by defending the mere possibility of [...]

]]> By: Overcoming Bias : Will We Ban Tone Readers? http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/10/in-praise-of-extortion.html#comment-486651 Overcoming Bias : Will We Ban Tone Readers? Sun, 24 Jul 2011 03:01:21 +0000 http://www.overcomingbias.com/?p=19963#comment-486651 [...] examples are laws against blackmail and gambling, and our reluctance to enforce most long term promises. Blackmail threatens to punish [...] [...] examples are laws against blackmail and gambling, and our reluctance to enforce most long term promises. Blackmail threatens to punish [...]

]]> By: Ralph http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/10/in-praise-of-extortion.html#comment-449418 Ralph Sun, 20 Jun 2010 22:18:36 +0000 http://www.overcomingbias.com/?p=19963#comment-449418 If Mr. Hanson does not pay me $1 million, I will reveal to the world that his advocacy of legalizing blackmail is the stupidest idea I've read in a long time. Blackmail is just one kind of extortion. Would he like to legalize the other kinds as well? If he does not agree, I plan to burn down his house. Oh, by the way, back in the first paragraph? Make that $2 million. This whole liberalized blackmail thing is growing on me. Just kidding! I would never threaten a person in such a way, even though sometimes I feel the urge to do evil of various kinds. Actions like that are too socially destructive. When we tear down the conventions of behaving decently toward each other, we tear down the whole basis of our ability to live safely side by side. I happen to like living safely. If you won't agree that I'm completely right about this, I will dump 2 million gallons of crude oil into the Gulf of Mexico. See how you like <strong>that</strong>! If Mr. Hanson does not pay me $1 million, I will reveal to the world that his advocacy of legalizing blackmail is the stupidest idea I’ve read in a long time.

Blackmail is just one kind of extortion. Would he like to legalize the other kinds as well? If he does not agree, I plan to burn down his house.

Oh, by the way, back in the first paragraph? Make that $2 million. This whole liberalized blackmail thing is growing on me.

Just kidding! I would never threaten a person in such a way, even though sometimes I feel the urge to do evil of various kinds. Actions like that are too socially destructive. When we tear down the conventions of behaving decently toward each other, we tear down the whole basis of our ability to live safely side by side. I happen to like living safely.

If you won’t agree that I’m completely right about this, I will dump 2 million gallons of crude oil into the Gulf of Mexico.

See how you like that!

]]> By: Seth http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/10/in-praise-of-extortion.html#comment-434444 Seth Sun, 11 Oct 2009 15:02:21 +0000 http://www.overcomingbias.com/?p=19963#comment-434444 No wealth created? Celebs don't come out ahead by hiding damaging information? Or adoring fans benefit by not adoring celebs quite as much. "Why promote whistleblowers but ban blackmail?" To tilt favor towards us interested third parties. It gives us a better chance to bid on the blackmailer's information. No wealth created? Celebs don’t come out ahead by hiding damaging information? Or adoring fans benefit by not adoring celebs quite as much.

“Why promote whistleblowers but ban blackmail?” To tilt favor towards us interested third parties. It gives us a better chance to bid on the blackmailer’s information.

]]> By: Tyler Willis http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/10/in-praise-of-extortion.html#comment-434342 Tyler Willis Fri, 09 Oct 2009 01:37:40 +0000 http://www.overcomingbias.com/?p=19963#comment-434342 Ascertain s/b assertion -- sorry, long day. Ascertain s/b assertion — sorry, long day.

]]> By: Tyler Willis http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/10/in-praise-of-extortion.html#comment-434341 Tyler Willis Fri, 09 Oct 2009 01:36:56 +0000 http://www.overcomingbias.com/?p=19963#comment-434341 Robin, I think your ascertain that legalizing blackmail would be a net-positive my be incorrect, for the following reasons: 1) It would actually encourage less overall information to come out. Victims of blackmail would not be able to go to the police for help with the situation, therefore they would have an option of recourse removed -- raising the likelihood of them choosing other options: including payment of the ask. 2) It creates fear in members of the general society -- this is not a concern if we're talking about drug dealing or cheating, but there are many things not illegal/immoral that a productive participant in our society should be able to engage in with some expectation of privacy. A productive person spending more energy to hide the relatively mundance things they do not want made public for cultural/familial/etc. reasons (sexual fetishes, cigarette smoking, etc.) means less energy spent on creating value. 3) While none of the likely outcomes of legal blackmail you laid out are particularly concerning, there's also nothing on that list I find positive. Furthermore, I think it is an incomplete list. Robin,

I think your ascertain that legalizing blackmail would be a net-positive my be incorrect, for the following reasons:

1) It would actually encourage less overall information to come out. Victims of blackmail would not be able to go to the police for help with the situation, therefore they would have an option of recourse removed — raising the likelihood of them choosing other options: including payment of the ask.

2) It creates fear in members of the general society — this is not a concern if we’re talking about drug dealing or cheating, but there are many things not illegal/immoral that a productive participant in our society should be able to engage in with some expectation of privacy. A productive person spending more energy to hide the relatively mundance things they do not want made public for cultural/familial/etc. reasons (sexual fetishes, cigarette smoking, etc.) means less energy spent on creating value.

3) While none of the likely outcomes of legal blackmail you laid out are particularly concerning, there’s also nothing on that list I find positive. Furthermore, I think it is an incomplete list.

]]> By: Seff http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/10/in-praise-of-extortion.html#comment-434270 Seff Tue, 06 Oct 2009 20:16:05 +0000 http://www.overcomingbias.com/?p=19963#comment-434270 The difference is: Whistle blowing is a finite event. Blackmail can be a series of events. Blackmailer, "I want a mil or I'll talk" Mark, "Ok". Six months later, Blackmailer, "I want a mil or I'll talk" The difference is: Whistle blowing is a finite event. Blackmail can be a series of events. Blackmailer, “I want a mil or I’ll talk” Mark, “Ok”. Six months later, Blackmailer, “I want a mil or I’ll talk”

]]> By: Dave http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/10/in-praise-of-extortion.html#comment-434262 Dave Tue, 06 Oct 2009 12:49:32 +0000 http://www.overcomingbias.com/?p=19963#comment-434262 I spent some time trying to understand Walter Block’s ideas on blackmail. Quite frankly if blackmail is covered under the non aggression principle, it doesn’t feel right. “In blackmail, however, what is being “threatened” is something that the blackmailer does have a right to do!—whether it be exercising the right of free speech, or refusing to patronize certain stores, or persuading others to do likewise. What is being threatened is not in itself illegitimate; it is, therefore, not possible to call the “threat” an illegitimate threat.” As others have pointed out, the trouble is that combining free speech with the right to voluntary exchange, two seeming inalienable rights don’t combine so well. It makes no sense to call blackmail voluntary exchange, even though the two have similar mechanics. All Block has done is poked a hole in the NAP. Now someone needs to repair the hole. Remember this the next time someone “Makes you an offer you can’t refuse.” I spent some time trying to understand Walter Block’s ideas on blackmail. Quite frankly if blackmail is covered under the non aggression principle, it doesn’t feel right.

“In blackmail, however, what is being “threatened” is something
that the blackmailer does have a right to do!—whether it be exercising
the right of free speech, or refusing to patronize certain
stores, or persuading others to do likewise. What is being threatened
is not in itself illegitimate; it is, therefore, not possible to
call the “threat” an illegitimate threat.”

As others have pointed out, the trouble is that combining free speech with the right to voluntary exchange, two seeming inalienable rights don’t combine so well. It makes no sense to call blackmail voluntary exchange, even though the two have similar mechanics. All Block has done is poked a hole in the NAP. Now someone needs to repair the hole. Remember this the next time someone “Makes you an offer you can’t refuse.”

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