Comments on: Fear of Near Death Thoughts http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/10/fear-of-near-death-thoughts.html Overcoming Bias is economist Robin Hanson’s blog, on honesty, signaling, disagreement, forecasting, and the far future. Sun, 12 Feb 2012 04:20:14 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.3 By: If You Had ALS, Which Option Would You Choose? | John Goodman's Health Policy Blog | NCPA.org http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/10/fear-of-near-death-thoughts.html#comment-463104 If You Had ALS, Which Option Would You Choose? | John Goodman's Health Policy Blog | NCPA.org Mon, 03 Jan 2011 21:24:08 +0000 http://www.overcomingbias.com/?p=19987#comment-463104 [...] is from Robin Hanson’s blog. It’s written by Hal Finney, who has learned that he has Amyotrophic Lateral Sclerosis or ALS, [...] [...] is from Robin Hanson’s blog. It’s written by Hal Finney, who has learned that he has Amyotrophic Lateral Sclerosis or ALS, [...]

]]> By: Overcoming Bias : The Felt & The Unfelt http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/10/fear-of-near-death-thoughts.html#comment-462213 Overcoming Bias : The Felt & The Unfelt Sun, 19 Dec 2010 15:32:10 +0000 http://www.overcomingbias.com/?p=19987#comment-462213 [...] fear not getting medicine far more than getting too [...] [...] fear not getting medicine far more than getting too [...]

]]> By: Overcoming Bias : Fear Made Farmers http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/10/fear-of-near-death-thoughts.html#comment-456069 Overcoming Bias : Fear Made Farmers Wed, 06 Oct 2010 12:41:43 +0000 http://www.overcomingbias.com/?p=19987#comment-456069 [...] even those favoring “behavioral” explanations, consistently neglect fear of (thinking about) death as an explanation of social phenomena. Social scientists also don’t like to think [...] [...] even those favoring “behavioral” explanations, consistently neglect fear of (thinking about) death as an explanation of social phenomena. Social scientists also don’t like to think [...]

]]> By: Overcoming Bias : Two Movies http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/10/fear-of-near-death-thoughts.html#comment-442261 Overcoming Bias : Two Movies Fri, 05 Feb 2010 04:26:52 +0000 http://www.overcomingbias.com/?p=19987#comment-442261 [...] So you process the events as near, without a story-mode emotional distance; you are naked to the full terror of bad possibilities.  It makes me wonder what other stories would feel like, if we felt them as [...] [...] So you process the events as near, without a story-mode emotional distance; you are naked to the full terror of bad possibilities.  It makes me wonder what other stories would feel like, if we felt them as [...]

]]> By: Thanatos Savehn http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/10/fear-of-near-death-thoughts.html#comment-434564 Thanatos Savehn Tue, 13 Oct 2009 04:21:58 +0000 http://www.overcomingbias.com/?p=19987#comment-434564 Send him this link please: http://www.scienceblog.com/cms/new-guidelines-identify-best-treatments-help-als-patients-live-longer-easier-26133.html Send him this link please:

http://www.scienceblog.com/cms/new-guidelines-identify-best-treatments-help-als-patients-live-longer-easier-26133.html

]]> By: gwern http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/10/fear-of-near-death-thoughts.html#comment-434543 gwern Mon, 12 Oct 2009 18:22:07 +0000 http://www.overcomingbias.com/?p=19987#comment-434543 I think you're focusing on the wrong factoid. The 90% may or may not be a sign of irrationality caused by near/far thinking - though it wouldn't be hard to argue that it is. The real kicker is : > "And even among those who choose life, for the great majority this is an emergency decision made in the hospital during a medical respiratory crisis." Now, there are 2 explanations for why this is true of most of the surviving 10%: either they simply put off & postponed what they *knew* was an inevitable choice (die or intubate), or they had decided to die, but then at the actual event changed their minds. The first one is obviously irrational; they are already spending hundreds of hours suffering and learning about ALS and dealing with it, could they really not take a few minutes to investigate life while intubated and make a considered choice? I mean, this is a majorly important decision: it decides literally decades worth of life. To not even make a decision is really really terrible. The second possibility is also bad: they came to a decision, but then at the last minute, despite the fact that nothing has changed, they have learned nothing knew, etc., they reverse it. This too is irrational, though perhaps predictable due to hyperbolic discounting (death doesn't look *too* bad from a distance of months, maybe). I think you’re focusing on the wrong factoid. The 90% may or may not be a sign of irrationality caused by near/far thinking – though it wouldn’t be hard to argue that it is.

The real kicker is :

> “And even among those who choose life, for the great majority this is an emergency decision made in the hospital during a medical respiratory crisis.”

Now, there are 2 explanations for why this is true of most of the surviving 10%: either they simply put off & postponed what they *knew* was an inevitable choice (die or intubate), or they had decided to die, but then at the actual event changed their minds.

The first one is obviously irrational; they are already spending hundreds of hours suffering and learning about ALS and dealing with it, could they really not take a few minutes to investigate life while intubated and make a considered choice? I mean, this is a majorly important decision: it decides literally decades worth of life. To not even make a decision is really really terrible.

The second possibility is also bad: they came to a decision, but then at the last minute, despite the fact that nothing has changed, they have learned nothing knew, etc., they reverse it. This too is irrational, though perhaps predictable due to hyperbolic discounting (death doesn’t look *too* bad from a distance of months, maybe).

]]> By: CannibalSmith http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/10/fear-of-near-death-thoughts.html#comment-434427 CannibalSmith Sun, 11 Oct 2009 09:07:56 +0000 http://www.overcomingbias.com/?p=19987#comment-434427 Are we (most of us) even <i>capable</i> of contemplating our deaths in near mode? Just like I cannot think about, say, Robin's house in near mode because I'm not even positive he has one, I cannot think about my death in near mode because I've never had grievous injuries or a near death experience. Are we (most of us) even capable of contemplating our deaths in near mode? Just like I cannot think about, say, Robin’s house in near mode because I’m not even positive he has one, I cannot think about my death in near mode because I’ve never had grievous injuries or a near death experience.

]]> By: Doug S. http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/10/fear-of-near-death-thoughts.html#comment-434416 Doug S. Sun, 11 Oct 2009 05:33:39 +0000 http://www.overcomingbias.com/?p=19987#comment-434416 Astronauts in centrifuges, training to deal with the high G-forces experienced during rocket launches, sometimes pass out, and they report exactly the same kinds of things that people with "near death experiences" report. In other words, a "near death experience" is what it feels like to have the brain shut itself down due to extreme conditions (loss of oxygen, etc.). Astronauts in centrifuges, training to deal with the high G-forces experienced during rocket launches, sometimes pass out, and they report exactly the same kinds of things that people with “near death experiences” report. In other words, a “near death experience” is what it feels like to have the brain shut itself down due to extreme conditions (loss of oxygen, etc.).

]]> By: Eric Falkenstein http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/10/fear-of-near-death-thoughts.html#comment-434377 Eric Falkenstein Sat, 10 Oct 2009 01:31:36 +0000 http://www.overcomingbias.com/?p=19987#comment-434377 First, my sympathies to Hal, as this is tragic news. I wish him all the best. He seems to have had a good life. I think the works of the stoics are most useful in facing death. Epictetus, Marcus Aurelius. Accept fate, and recognize that death is as natural as life. One doesn't have to do anything more if we are dealt a bad hand, do not feel obligated to maximize one's lifespan. We can't know what happens next to our consciousness, but a human's unique ability to be anxious about his own death isn't a feature, it's a bug. I don't begrudge people for hanging on to life as long as they can, but I do think the cost/benefit ratio isn't as most think. First, my sympathies to Hal, as this is tragic news. I wish him all the best. He seems to have had a good life.

I think the works of the stoics are most useful in facing death. Epictetus, Marcus Aurelius. Accept fate, and recognize that death is as natural as life. One doesn’t have to do anything more if we are dealt a bad hand, do not feel obligated to maximize one’s lifespan. We can’t know what happens next to our consciousness, but a human’s unique ability to be anxious about his own death isn’t a feature, it’s a bug. I don’t begrudge people for hanging on to life as long as they can, but I do think the cost/benefit ratio isn’t as most think.

]]> By: Robin Hanson http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/10/fear-of-near-death-thoughts.html#comment-434376 Robin Hanson Sat, 10 Oct 2009 00:50:41 +0000 http://www.overcomingbias.com/?p=19987#comment-434376 We don't mind so much thinking about death in far mode. What we fear is thinking about <em>our</em> death in <em>near</em> mode - where it feels way way too close for comfort. We don’t mind so much thinking about death in far mode. What we fear is thinking about our death in near mode – where it feels way way too close for comfort.

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