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	<title>Comments on: Beware Far Ethics</title>
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	<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/10/beware-far-ethics.html</link>
	<description>Overcoming Bias is economist Robin Hanson’s blog, on honesty, signaling, disagreement, forecasting, and the far future.</description>
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		<title>By: Avoiding far bias &#8211; Kevin Burke</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/10/beware-far-ethics.html#comment-435438</link>
		<dc:creator>Avoiding far bias &#8211; Kevin Burke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Oct 2009 16:04:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overcomingbias.com/?p=20212#comment-435438</guid>
		<description>[...] Hanson has a good post on our tendency to moralize and offer suggestions about people that are far away from us: At my Georgetown lecture last night on our robot future, the smart econ students focused their [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Hanson has a good post on our tendency to moralize and offer suggestions about people that are far away from us: At my Georgetown lecture last night on our robot future, the smart econ students focused their [...]</p>
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		<title>By: ChrisA</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/10/beware-far-ethics.html#comment-435425</link>
		<dc:creator>ChrisA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Oct 2009 07:53:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overcomingbias.com/?p=20212#comment-435425</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve mentioned it before on this blog, but if you take the view that &quot;morality&quot; or ethics are just attempts to rationalize genetic based group cooperation strategies, then you should not expect to be able to perform calculus with morality - it is not a logical construct, it is simply feelings. Any attempt to perform moral calculations (I should help this person rather than this other person) is doomed to fail if approached analytically. Go with your feelings, if you want to help A rather than B, then do so.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve mentioned it before on this blog, but if you take the view that &#8220;morality&#8221; or ethics are just attempts to rationalize genetic based group cooperation strategies, then you should not expect to be able to perform calculus with morality &#8211; it is not a logical construct, it is simply feelings. Any attempt to perform moral calculations (I should help this person rather than this other person) is doomed to fail if approached analytically. Go with your feelings, if you want to help A rather than B, then do so.</p>
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		<title>By: Unnamed</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/10/beware-far-ethics.html#comment-435420</link>
		<dc:creator>Unnamed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Oct 2009 22:53:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overcomingbias.com/?p=20212#comment-435420</guid>
		<description>Eyal, Liberman, and Trope (2008) have a paper (&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.psych.nyu.edu/trope/eyal%20et%20al.,%202008%20-%20morality.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;pdf&lt;/a&gt;) applying near-far theory (aka construal level theory) to morality.  The abstract:

&lt;blockquote&gt;We propose that people judge immoral acts as more offensive and moral acts as more virtuous when the acts are psychologically distant than near. This is because people construe more distant situations in terms of moral principles, rather than attenuating situation-specific considerations. Results of four studies support these predictions. Study 1 shows that more temporally distant transgressions (e.g., eating one’s dead dog) are construed in terms of moral principles rather than contextual information. Studies 2 and 3 further show that morally offensive actions are judged more severely when imagined from a more distant temporal (Study 2) or social (Study 3) perspective. Finally, Study 4 shows that moral acts (e.g., adopting a disabled child) are judged more positively from temporal distance. The findings suggest that people more readily apply their moral principles to distant rather than proximal behaviors.&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eyal, Liberman, and Trope (2008) have a paper (<a href="http://www.psych.nyu.edu/trope/eyal%20et%20al.,%202008%20-%20morality.pdf" rel="nofollow">pdf</a>) applying near-far theory (aka construal level theory) to morality.  The abstract:</p>
<blockquote><p>We propose that people judge immoral acts as more offensive and moral acts as more virtuous when the acts are psychologically distant than near. This is because people construe more distant situations in terms of moral principles, rather than attenuating situation-specific considerations. Results of four studies support these predictions. Study 1 shows that more temporally distant transgressions (e.g., eating one’s dead dog) are construed in terms of moral principles rather than contextual information. Studies 2 and 3 further show that morally offensive actions are judged more severely when imagined from a more distant temporal (Study 2) or social (Study 3) perspective. Finally, Study 4 shows that moral acts (e.g., adopting a disabled child) are judged more positively from temporal distance. The findings suggest that people more readily apply their moral principles to distant rather than proximal behaviors.</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: Robin Hanson on Idealism and Immigration &#171; It&#39;s All Endogenous</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/10/beware-far-ethics.html#comment-435343</link>
		<dc:creator>Robin Hanson on Idealism and Immigration &#171; It&#39;s All Endogenous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Oct 2009 11:25:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overcomingbias.com/?p=20212#comment-435343</guid>
		<description>[...] Robin Hanson on Idealism and&#160;Immigration By veryshuai  Here here: [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Robin Hanson on Idealism and&nbsp;Immigration By veryshuai  Here here: [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Robert Wiblin</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/10/beware-far-ethics.html#comment-435340</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Wiblin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Oct 2009 10:57:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overcomingbias.com/?p=20212#comment-435340</guid>
		<description>You really think that campaigning for increased immigration is the best way to help the poor? I don&#039;t doubt immigration is one of the best ways to help the poor, but it&#039;s not obvious that a marginal campaigner on that issue will have much effect.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You really think that campaigning for increased immigration is the best way to help the poor? I don&#8217;t doubt immigration is one of the best ways to help the poor, but it&#8217;s not obvious that a marginal campaigner on that issue will have much effect.</p>
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		<title>By: Dog of Justice</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/10/beware-far-ethics.html#comment-435333</link>
		<dc:creator>Dog of Justice</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Oct 2009 07:10:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overcomingbias.com/?p=20212#comment-435333</guid>
		<description>This ignores the question of &quot;why is it poor?&quot;

It is far from obvious that inviting them en masse to the rich world provides greater overall utility than teaching them to create their own rich world (which has worked out quite well in East Asia over the last half century).  If there was some reason that absolutely prevented them from creating a rich world locally, common sense stipulates that the same reason, ceteris paribus, would cause importation of them to (i) lower the well-being of your neighbors, and (ii) plausibly lower reasonable measures of global utility (look at the asymptotics of the situation, not just the immediate first derivative).

Open borders advocates will constantly run into &quot;hindering neighbors&quot; for the foreseeable future, for the very good reason that they have never satisfactorily addressed the concerns above.  Their disinterest in increasing their home&#039;s culture&#039;s ability to assimilate -- the one thing most likely to break the ceteris paribus assumption above and make 3rd world immigration a win-win -- is particularly damning.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This ignores the question of &#8220;why is it poor?&#8221;</p>
<p>It is far from obvious that inviting them en masse to the rich world provides greater overall utility than teaching them to create their own rich world (which has worked out quite well in East Asia over the last half century).  If there was some reason that absolutely prevented them from creating a rich world locally, common sense stipulates that the same reason, ceteris paribus, would cause importation of them to (i) lower the well-being of your neighbors, and (ii) plausibly lower reasonable measures of global utility (look at the asymptotics of the situation, not just the immediate first derivative).</p>
<p>Open borders advocates will constantly run into &#8220;hindering neighbors&#8221; for the foreseeable future, for the very good reason that they have never satisfactorily addressed the concerns above.  Their disinterest in increasing their home&#8217;s culture&#8217;s ability to assimilate &#8212; the one thing most likely to break the ceteris paribus assumption above and make 3rd world immigration a win-win &#8212; is particularly damning.</p>
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		<title>By: Robin Hanson</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/10/beware-far-ethics.html#comment-435327</link>
		<dc:creator>Robin Hanson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Oct 2009 04:43:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overcomingbias.com/?p=20212#comment-435327</guid>
		<description>I just added to this post.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just added to this post.</p>
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		<title>By: Eric Falkenstein</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/10/beware-far-ethics.html#comment-435322</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Falkenstein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Oct 2009 03:06:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overcomingbias.com/?p=20212#comment-435322</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m just waiting for the Holodeck.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m just waiting for the Holodeck.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert Wiblin</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/10/beware-far-ethics.html#comment-435321</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Wiblin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Oct 2009 00:46:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overcomingbias.com/?p=20212#comment-435321</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m with Carl - that doesn&#039;t seem to be obviously true. Perhaps true that you can&#039;t have insights that are new to the world without much research, but you can surely have insights that are new to you and help you know what to do.

And how do you know this starry eyed college student, whoever he or she is, plans to only do brief and scanty research of such situations? Also I hear Burma has some lovely temples...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m with Carl &#8211; that doesn&#8217;t seem to be obviously true. Perhaps true that you can&#8217;t have insights that are new to the world without much research, but you can surely have insights that are new to you and help you know what to do.</p>
<p>And how do you know this starry eyed college student, whoever he or she is, plans to only do brief and scanty research of such situations? Also I hear Burma has some lovely temples&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: SimonJM</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/10/beware-far-ethics.html#comment-435320</link>
		<dc:creator>SimonJM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Oct 2009 23:46:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overcomingbias.com/?p=20212#comment-435320</guid>
		<description>Pls slip in the missing &#039;more&#039;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pls slip in the missing &#8216;more&#8217;</p>
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