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	<title>Comments on: This is the Dream Time</title>
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	<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/09/this-is-the-dream-time.html</link>
	<description>Overcoming Bias is economist Robin Hanson’s blog, on honesty, signaling, disagreement, forecasting, and the far future.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 12 Feb 2012 01:09:57 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Overcoming Bias : The End of Possibility</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/09/this-is-the-dream-time.html#comment-522133</link>
		<dc:creator>Overcoming Bias : The End of Possibility</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Oct 2011 02:00:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overcomingbias.com/?p=19914#comment-522133</guid>
		<description>[...] in the long run, this faith in endless possibility is completely wrong. Yes our dreamtime era is fantastically rich with change and possibility, but on cosmological time scales this simply [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] in the long run, this faith in endless possibility is completely wrong. Yes our dreamtime era is fantastically rich with change and possibility, but on cosmological time scales this simply [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Stares at the World &#187; Know Your Heart</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/09/this-is-the-dream-time.html#comment-493505</link>
		<dc:creator>Stares at the World &#187; Know Your Heart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Aug 2011 22:22:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overcomingbias.com/?p=19914#comment-493505</guid>
		<description>[...] yourselves alive, folks.  Dreamtime is coming to a close&#8230; and it is later than you [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] yourselves alive, folks.  Dreamtime is coming to a close&#8230; and it is later than you [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Alexander Kruel &#183; Objections to Coherent Extrapolated Volition</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/09/this-is-the-dream-time.html#comment-486272</link>
		<dc:creator>Alexander Kruel &#183; Objections to Coherent Extrapolated Volition</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Jul 2011 12:48:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overcomingbias.com/?p=19914#comment-486272</guid>
		<description>[...] about cellular automata is largely determined by factors such as your education, culture and environmental circumstances. The same forager who cared to kill a lot of animals, to get the best ladies in its clan, might [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] about cellular automata is largely determined by factors such as your education, culture and environmental circumstances. The same forager who cared to kill a lot of animals, to get the best ladies in its clan, might [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Jesse M.</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/09/this-is-the-dream-time.html#comment-477075</link>
		<dc:creator>Jesse M.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Jun 2011 09:01:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overcomingbias.com/?p=19914#comment-477075</guid>
		<description>I agree, especially when you consider the possibility that our &quot;descendants&quot; may be mind uploads, or other forms of A.I. In that case one form of &quot;reproduction&quot; would be simply making a copy of one&#039;s own simulated brain and letting it run independently--surely such civilizations are going to place some restrictions on self-copying, and not allow a few deranged individuals to copy themselves exponentially and hog most of the computational resources of the entire civilization! And if there are restrictions on self-copying (perhaps involving limited &quot;shares&quot; of the computational resources of the whole civilization, so eventually you&#039;ll no longer own enough memory to make more copies of yourself), then it seems natural there would be restrictions on other forms of &quot;reproduction&quot; like creating new &quot;infant&quot; minds to raise up.

I wonder to what degree Robin&#039;s argument here is influenced by anthropic reasoning related to the &quot;doomsday argument&quot;, as well as the related &quot;simulation argument&quot;. The doomsday argument does present an interesting puzzle if you assume at least some fraction of civilizations in the multiverse manage to survive long enough to have technological singularities and spread throughout space, as these civilizations should be vastly more populous than those that fail, and thus it seems likely that the vast majority of sentient beings in the multiverse would living in such a mature galactic civilization, yet we don&#039;t seem to be. If you buy this sort of anthropic reasoning (and I do think it&#039;s plausible), one possible answer is that a large proportion of sentient beings in such mature civilizations will be part of &quot;ancestor civilizations&quot; simulating the pre-singularity days, so these beings think they&#039;re living in a much earlier and less populous era than they &quot;really&quot; are, and thus experiences like ours would actually not be so unusual. But in order for this argument to make sense you have to find some explanation as to why such advanced civilizations would want to spend such a disproportionate amount of time simulating early eras of their own history--and Robin&#039;s scenario above is one possible &quot;story&quot; as to why they might find our era particularly fascinating. If you don&#039;t buy into the sort of anthropic reasoning though, there&#039;s no longer any pressing reason to try to come up with an argument for why advanced galactic civilizations would be so interested in this era of history (and even if you do buy into it, one can think of other possible &quot;stories&quot; to rationalize this idea).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree, especially when you consider the possibility that our &#8220;descendants&#8221; may be mind uploads, or other forms of A.I. In that case one form of &#8220;reproduction&#8221; would be simply making a copy of one&#8217;s own simulated brain and letting it run independently&#8211;surely such civilizations are going to place some restrictions on self-copying, and not allow a few deranged individuals to copy themselves exponentially and hog most of the computational resources of the entire civilization! And if there are restrictions on self-copying (perhaps involving limited &#8220;shares&#8221; of the computational resources of the whole civilization, so eventually you&#8217;ll no longer own enough memory to make more copies of yourself), then it seems natural there would be restrictions on other forms of &#8220;reproduction&#8221; like creating new &#8220;infant&#8221; minds to raise up.</p>
<p>I wonder to what degree Robin&#8217;s argument here is influenced by anthropic reasoning related to the &#8220;doomsday argument&#8221;, as well as the related &#8220;simulation argument&#8221;. The doomsday argument does present an interesting puzzle if you assume at least some fraction of civilizations in the multiverse manage to survive long enough to have technological singularities and spread throughout space, as these civilizations should be vastly more populous than those that fail, and thus it seems likely that the vast majority of sentient beings in the multiverse would living in such a mature galactic civilization, yet we don&#8217;t seem to be. If you buy this sort of anthropic reasoning (and I do think it&#8217;s plausible), one possible answer is that a large proportion of sentient beings in such mature civilizations will be part of &#8220;ancestor civilizations&#8221; simulating the pre-singularity days, so these beings think they&#8217;re living in a much earlier and less populous era than they &#8220;really&#8221; are, and thus experiences like ours would actually not be so unusual. But in order for this argument to make sense you have to find some explanation as to why such advanced civilizations would want to spend such a disproportionate amount of time simulating early eras of their own history&#8211;and Robin&#8217;s scenario above is one possible &#8220;story&#8221; as to why they might find our era particularly fascinating. If you don&#8217;t buy into the sort of anthropic reasoning though, there&#8217;s no longer any pressing reason to try to come up with an argument for why advanced galactic civilizations would be so interested in this era of history (and even if you do buy into it, one can think of other possible &#8220;stories&#8221; to rationalize this idea).</p>
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		<title>By: Overcoming Bias : Dreamtime Finance</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/09/this-is-the-dream-time.html#comment-474056</link>
		<dc:creator>Overcoming Bias : Dreamtime Finance</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Jun 2011 01:49:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overcomingbias.com/?p=19914#comment-474056</guid>
		<description>[...] talked before about how our era is a rare extreme &#8220;dreamtime,&#8221; with fast change and behavior quite out of equilibrium with evolutionary selection [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] talked before about how our era is a rare extreme &#8220;dreamtime,&#8221; with fast change and behavior quite out of equilibrium with evolutionary selection [...]</p>
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		<title>By: ovaut</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/09/this-is-the-dream-time.html#comment-473061</link>
		<dc:creator>ovaut</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 May 2011 03:10:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overcomingbias.com/?p=19914#comment-473061</guid>
		<description>How on earth can you be so confident of all this? 

No qualifications at all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How on earth can you be so confident of all this? </p>
<p>No qualifications at all.</p>
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		<title>By: PAP bloodletting &#124; time capsule</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/09/this-is-the-dream-time.html#comment-473058</link>
		<dc:creator>PAP bloodletting &#124; time capsule</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 May 2011 01:20:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overcomingbias.com/?p=19914#comment-473058</guid>
		<description>[...] are on slippery slope. The words of Robin Hanson echo my [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] are on slippery slope. The words of Robin Hanson echo my [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Overcoming Bias : Clark And Caplan</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/09/this-is-the-dream-time.html#comment-473013</link>
		<dc:creator>Overcoming Bias : Clark And Caplan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 May 2011 00:26:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overcomingbias.com/?p=19914#comment-473013</guid>
		<description>[...] that applied for most of our history, and will apply to most of our descendants. Our special dreamtime era of rapid growth and rising living standards can&#8217;t last long &#8211; within a few [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] that applied for most of our history, and will apply to most of our descendants. Our special dreamtime era of rapid growth and rising living standards can&#8217;t last long &#8211; within a few [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: In the Googleplex</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/09/this-is-the-dream-time.html#comment-468566</link>
		<dc:creator>In the Googleplex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Mar 2011 07:26:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overcomingbias.com/?p=19914#comment-468566</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Why the 20th Century Is&#160;Different...&lt;/strong&gt;

What is different about the 20th century? Why is there a crisis of identity and moral relativism despite all the goodness and achievements? This is the Dream Time by Robin Hanson is written from the point of view of our distant future descendants looki...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Why the 20th Century Is&nbsp;Different&#8230;</strong></p>
<p>What is different about the 20th century? Why is there a crisis of identity and moral relativism despite all the goodness and achievements? This is the Dream Time by Robin Hanson is written from the point of view of our distant future descendants looki&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Phil Goetz</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/09/this-is-the-dream-time.html#comment-440947</link>
		<dc:creator>Phil Goetz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Jan 2010 02:44:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overcomingbias.com/?p=19914#comment-440947</guid>
		<description>No; Vladimir has a point.  Consider it &quot;reproducing&quot; vs. &quot;growing&quot;.  Evolution isn&#039;t so easy to analyze when people don&#039;t die of old age, and aren&#039;t individuals bounded by a skin, and aren&#039;t distinct from their goods.  There is no real distinction between reproducing and acquiring goods in the future we&#039;re talking about.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No; Vladimir has a point.  Consider it &#8220;reproducing&#8221; vs. &#8220;growing&#8221;.  Evolution isn&#8217;t so easy to analyze when people don&#8217;t die of old age, and aren&#8217;t individuals bounded by a skin, and aren&#8217;t distinct from their goods.  There is no real distinction between reproducing and acquiring goods in the future we&#8217;re talking about.</p>
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