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	<title>Comments on: Who Are US Policy Elites?</title>
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	<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/08/who-are-us-policy-elites.html</link>
	<description>Overcoming Bias is economist Robin Hanson’s blog, on honesty, signaling, disagreement, forecasting, and the far future.</description>
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		<title>By: Finance is High Status Welfare &#171; feed on my links</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/08/who-are-us-policy-elites.html#comment-473659</link>
		<dc:creator>Finance is High Status Welfare &#171; feed on my links</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jun 2011 16:02:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overcomingbias.com/?p=19429#comment-473659</guid>
		<description>[...] The kids do this for the status and the status is what they&#8217;re selling. And it&#8217;s self-perpetuating! [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] The kids do this for the status and the status is what they&#8217;re selling. And it&#8217;s self-perpetuating! [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Work-Starred &#171; Rhymes With Cars &#38; Girls</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/08/who-are-us-policy-elites.html#comment-432447</link>
		<dc:creator>Work-Starred &#171; Rhymes With Cars &#38; Girls</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Sep 2009 22:29:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overcomingbias.com/?p=19429#comment-432447</guid>
		<description>[...] Hanson says:  So it seems the US has a finance and policy elite defined by college ties and related social [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Hanson says:  So it seems the US has a finance and policy elite defined by college ties and related social [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/08/who-are-us-policy-elites.html#comment-431903</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Aug 2009 20:35:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overcomingbias.com/?p=19429#comment-431903</guid>
		<description>Since they&#039;re moderated, I&#039;d ask that this version, w/o typos and with a few additional sentences be used instead.  I apologize for the sloppiness.

This description of the academic macroeconomic consensus is wildly off the mark. It’s just a description of the “freshwater” rational expectations (or real business cycle) school associated with the University of Chicago, and completely ignores the “saltwater” school prevalent at Harvard or MIT. Freshwater views are stil, I&#039;d guess, narrowly the minority among academic economists, and have essentially no adherants in the policy world (e.g., the Fed, ECB, IMF, World Bank, BIS, etc.) or among Wall Street economists. Brad DeLong, Paul Krugman, Simon Johnson and a variety others have been arguing in a various fora that the RE school has proved its uselessness in the current crisis. (Larry Summer’s takedown of real business cycle theory in the Minneapolis Fed Quarterly Review still says most of what needs to be said.)  The school’s preeminence in academic macroeconomics probably peaked a few years ago. Alex Tabarok and Alex Cochrane are showing their intellectual insularity, not accurately summarizing the academic consensus.  It&#039;s ironic that the freshwater view would receive such strong expression on this website, where biases and heuristics in decion-making are key themes.  The now abundant literature on behavorial economics and finance has taught us that people simply don&#039;t make decisions as idealized rational agents optimizing an intertemporal objective function.  (Even if individuals did, additional strong assumptions are needed to move to statements about the behavior of the macroeconomy.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Since they&#8217;re moderated, I&#8217;d ask that this version, w/o typos and with a few additional sentences be used instead.  I apologize for the sloppiness.</p>
<p>This description of the academic macroeconomic consensus is wildly off the mark. It’s just a description of the “freshwater” rational expectations (or real business cycle) school associated with the University of Chicago, and completely ignores the “saltwater” school prevalent at Harvard or MIT. Freshwater views are stil, I&#8217;d guess, narrowly the minority among academic economists, and have essentially no adherants in the policy world (e.g., the Fed, ECB, IMF, World Bank, BIS, etc.) or among Wall Street economists. Brad DeLong, Paul Krugman, Simon Johnson and a variety others have been arguing in a various fora that the RE school has proved its uselessness in the current crisis. (Larry Summer’s takedown of real business cycle theory in the Minneapolis Fed Quarterly Review still says most of what needs to be said.)  The school’s preeminence in academic macroeconomics probably peaked a few years ago. Alex Tabarok and Alex Cochrane are showing their intellectual insularity, not accurately summarizing the academic consensus.  It&#8217;s ironic that the freshwater view would receive such strong expression on this website, where biases and heuristics in decion-making are key themes.  The now abundant literature on behavorial economics and finance has taught us that people simply don&#8217;t make decisions as idealized rational agents optimizing an intertemporal objective function.  (Even if individuals did, additional strong assumptions are needed to move to statements about the behavior of the macroeconomy.)</p>
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		<title>By: Phil Goetz</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/08/who-are-us-policy-elites.html#comment-431841</link>
		<dc:creator>Phil Goetz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Aug 2009 02:05:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overcomingbias.com/?p=19429#comment-431841</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s odd that the comments have focused on the mention of Keynsian economics.  (I can&#039;t resist commenting myself - it was frustrating earlier this year to hear the New Deal invoked almost daily on the radio as proof that a stimulus was needed, when my excursions using Google indicated that this was controversial at best.  It looks to me like what pulled us out of the depression was selling war supplies to the British; but I know little about it.)

But, I thought &lt;em&gt;this&lt;/em&gt; was the more important part of the post:
&lt;blockquote&gt;The US has a finance and policy elite defined by college ties and related social connections, an elite with a strong sense that only people in their circle can really be trusted, and that their institutions must be saved at all cost at taxpayer expense if necessary.&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s odd that the comments have focused on the mention of Keynsian economics.  (I can&#8217;t resist commenting myself &#8211; it was frustrating earlier this year to hear the New Deal invoked almost daily on the radio as proof that a stimulus was needed, when my excursions using Google indicated that this was controversial at best.  It looks to me like what pulled us out of the depression was selling war supplies to the British; but I know little about it.)</p>
<p>But, I thought <em>this</em> was the more important part of the post:</p>
<blockquote><p>The US has a finance and policy elite defined by college ties and related social connections, an elite with a strong sense that only people in their circle can really be trusted, and that their institutions must be saved at all cost at taxpayer expense if necessary.</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: Phil Goetz</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/08/who-are-us-policy-elites.html#comment-431840</link>
		<dc:creator>Phil Goetz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Aug 2009 01:43:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overcomingbias.com/?p=19429#comment-431840</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;I am fairly confident that the average policy maker has little to no background in economics and finance. I am sure of this because I have seen the debates on the floor of both house and senate and all but one or two members have a significant grasp on monetary policy - let alone macroeconomics or price theory.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Agreed.  For example, the concept of &quot;opportunity cost&quot; is unknown in American political debate.

&lt;blockquote&gt;Why should they? Their constituents don’t know enough about how economies and policy to realize that they should look for these things in a representative.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I wrote a post about this on Less Wrong called &lt;a href=&quot;http://lesswrong.com/lw/63/mechanics_without_wrenches/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Mechanics without wrenches&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I am fairly confident that the average policy maker has little to no background in economics and finance. I am sure of this because I have seen the debates on the floor of both house and senate and all but one or two members have a significant grasp on monetary policy &#8211; let alone macroeconomics or price theory.</p></blockquote>
<p>Agreed.  For example, the concept of &#8220;opportunity cost&#8221; is unknown in American political debate.</p>
<blockquote><p>Why should they? Their constituents don’t know enough about how economies and policy to realize that they should look for these things in a representative.</p></blockquote>
<p>I wrote a post about this on Less Wrong called <a href="http://lesswrong.com/lw/63/mechanics_without_wrenches/" rel="nofollow">Mechanics without wrenches</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: chesh</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/08/who-are-us-policy-elites.html#comment-431771</link>
		<dc:creator>chesh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Aug 2009 20:00:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overcomingbias.com/?p=19429#comment-431771</guid>
		<description>In a fairly obvious display of the powers of signalling, while I&#039;ve always respected you for your keen insights, finding out you went to GENCON has made me feel genuine affection towards you, as the in-group implied by that affects me much more on a conscious daily level than most any other group we might share membership in.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In a fairly obvious display of the powers of signalling, while I&#8217;ve always respected you for your keen insights, finding out you went to GENCON has made me feel genuine affection towards you, as the in-group implied by that affects me much more on a conscious daily level than most any other group we might share membership in.</p>
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		<title>By: Crime &#38; Federalism</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/08/who-are-us-policy-elites.html#comment-431769</link>
		<dc:creator>Crime &#38; Federalism</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Aug 2009 19:10:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overcomingbias.com/?p=19429#comment-431769</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;The Elitism Bias/In-Group Bias...&lt;/strong&gt;

The financial crisis has given is insight into a blindness bias that affects the elite. Ask yourself: How furious were you to learn the details of the bail outs? Unless you&#039;re reading this blog from a Goldman Sachs server, you were likely outrages. Ho...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>The Elitism Bias/In-Group Bias&#8230;</strong></p>
<p>The financial crisis has given is insight into a blindness bias that affects the elite. Ask yourself: How furious were you to learn the details of the bail outs? Unless you&#8217;re reading this blog from a Goldman Sachs server, you were likely outrages. Ho&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Hopefully Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/08/who-are-us-policy-elites.html#comment-431739</link>
		<dc:creator>Hopefully Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Aug 2009 04:33:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overcomingbias.com/?p=19429#comment-431739</guid>
		<description>sounds incorrect or at least significantly incomplete to me.
Should look at how various differentiating beliefs for an organization make them more competitive.

Some narrow affiliation beliefs may be arbitrarily bad for broader affiliations. Some may be bad for broader affiliations but may help the narror in competition with other narrows.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>sounds incorrect or at least significantly incomplete to me.<br />
Should look at how various differentiating beliefs for an organization make them more competitive.</p>
<p>Some narrow affiliation beliefs may be arbitrarily bad for broader affiliations. Some may be bad for broader affiliations but may help the narror in competition with other narrows.</p>
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		<title>By: Hopefully Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/08/who-are-us-policy-elites.html#comment-431738</link>
		<dc:creator>Hopefully Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Aug 2009 04:27:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overcomingbias.com/?p=19429#comment-431738</guid>
		<description>I wrote part of that poorly. I meant that Prof. Hanson wrote it in such a way that the two seem inseparable in outcomes (regulatory capture vs. naive belief that what&#039;s good for GS is good for America). I think it&#039;s reasonable to reserve regulatory capture as an alternative theory.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wrote part of that poorly. I meant that Prof. Hanson wrote it in such a way that the two seem inseparable in outcomes (regulatory capture vs. naive belief that what&#8217;s good for GS is good for America). I think it&#8217;s reasonable to reserve regulatory capture as an alternative theory.</p>
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		<title>By: TGGP</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/08/who-are-us-policy-elites.html#comment-431736</link>
		<dc:creator>TGGP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Aug 2009 04:16:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overcomingbias.com/?p=19429#comment-431736</guid>
		<description>&quot;As We Go Marching&quot; discusses how policies associated with Keynesianism (deficit spending to revive an economy) had been popular among politicians for years before Keynes came up with a justification. Rawls similarly came up with a Theory of Justice to prove how reasonably people must assent to the Great Society, and in a personal letter logically proved that baseball (which was then much more popular) is the greatest sport.

Keynes should not be so associated with the New Deal either. He wrote to FDR advising against some destructive policies that lowered output.

&lt;i&gt;sincerely and self-interestedly assume that what’s best for their most narrow affiliation is also what’s best for their broadest affiliation&lt;/i&gt;
Sounds about right, and I think also applies to the neoconservatives. They don&#039;t just echo the Israeli government, and in the case of policy toward Serbia they thought they knew better. They&#039;ve got a vision which they think must be in the best interests of the U.S, Israel, and most of the world and would rather not even consider that there could be tension among those different interests. It&#039;s the halo-effect where the things you like are just plain good by nature without drawbacks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;As We Go Marching&#8221; discusses how policies associated with Keynesianism (deficit spending to revive an economy) had been popular among politicians for years before Keynes came up with a justification. Rawls similarly came up with a Theory of Justice to prove how reasonably people must assent to the Great Society, and in a personal letter logically proved that baseball (which was then much more popular) is the greatest sport.</p>
<p>Keynes should not be so associated with the New Deal either. He wrote to FDR advising against some destructive policies that lowered output.</p>
<p><i>sincerely and self-interestedly assume that what’s best for their most narrow affiliation is also what’s best for their broadest affiliation</i><br />
Sounds about right, and I think also applies to the neoconservatives. They don&#8217;t just echo the Israeli government, and in the case of policy toward Serbia they thought they knew better. They&#8217;ve got a vision which they think must be in the best interests of the U.S, Israel, and most of the world and would rather not even consider that there could be tension among those different interests. It&#8217;s the halo-effect where the things you like are just plain good by nature without drawbacks.</p>
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