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	<title>Comments on: Who Will Fight Group Think?</title>
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	<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/07/who-will-fight-group-think.html</link>
	<description>Overcoming Bias is economist Robin Hanson’s blog, on honesty, signaling, disagreement, forecasting, and the far future.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 12 Feb 2012 04:20:14 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Rahul Varshney</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/07/who-will-fight-group-think.html#comment-453050</link>
		<dc:creator>Rahul Varshney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Aug 2010 01:10:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overcomingbias.com/?p=19152#comment-453050</guid>
		<description>Great article. 12 step programs based on the 12 steps/traditions of AA are an ideal incubator for contrarian ideas. This article reminded me of the story of evolution pertaining to black/white moths on white oaks during the industrial error. Prior to industry, white moths dominated bc black moths highly contrasted to the white oak trees &amp; were easily spotted by predators. Yet as industry kicked in, the oaks became covered by soot. Suddenly the black moth became dominant. So after centuries of one trait dominance, survival demanded a change. Amazing! In a similar fashion, I&#039;ve found Alcoholics Anonymous to be a community where my ideas of emotional sobriety can be nurtured. Ultimately, if I can help the newcomer find sobriety, then my ideas take dominance, regardless of that my sobriety is less than one year old. In this way, 12 step programs are unions through and through, allowing people to harmonize &amp; essentially thwarting group think. Amazing, amazing stuff. If anyone is curious, feel free to tweet me @vovrv.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great article. 12 step programs based on the 12 steps/traditions of AA are an ideal incubator for contrarian ideas. This article reminded me of the story of evolution pertaining to black/white moths on white oaks during the industrial error. Prior to industry, white moths dominated bc black moths highly contrasted to the white oak trees &amp; were easily spotted by predators. Yet as industry kicked in, the oaks became covered by soot. Suddenly the black moth became dominant. So after centuries of one trait dominance, survival demanded a change. Amazing! In a similar fashion, I&#8217;ve found Alcoholics Anonymous to be a community where my ideas of emotional sobriety can be nurtured. Ultimately, if I can help the newcomer find sobriety, then my ideas take dominance, regardless of that my sobriety is less than one year old. In this way, 12 step programs are unions through and through, allowing people to harmonize &amp; essentially thwarting group think. Amazing, amazing stuff. If anyone is curious, feel free to tweet me @vovrv.</p>
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		<title>By: Hopefully Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/07/who-will-fight-group-think.html#comment-430998</link>
		<dc:creator>Hopefully Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Aug 2009 09:33:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overcomingbias.com/?p=19152#comment-430998</guid>
		<description>&quot;Emotional groupthink is where people try to punish those who depart from the consensus. I confess I don’t understand this part of the problem.&quot;

read my next post (should be up in a day or so and I think it has a good metaphor for this).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Emotional groupthink is where people try to punish those who depart from the consensus. I confess I don’t understand this part of the problem.&#8221;</p>
<p>read my next post (should be up in a day or so and I think it has a good metaphor for this).</p>
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		<title>By: Friday Link Love 7/31 &#124; Brad&#8217;s Reader</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/07/who-will-fight-group-think.html#comment-430900</link>
		<dc:creator>Friday Link Love 7/31 &#124; Brad&#8217;s Reader</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Jul 2009 17:42:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overcomingbias.com/?p=19152#comment-430900</guid>
		<description>[...] Who will fight group think [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Who will fight group think [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Hal Finney</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/07/who-will-fight-group-think.html#comment-430862</link>
		<dc:creator>Hal Finney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Jul 2009 20:19:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overcomingbias.com/?p=19152#comment-430862</guid>
		<description>I would distinguish between rational groupthink and emotional groupthink.

Groupthink can be rational. A group opinion is more likely to be right than my opinion, so it is rational to adopt the group opinion. But if everyone does this, it leads to information cascades, where an idea that gets a head start becomes entrenched even though nobody would believe it on their own.

Avoiding rational groupthink requires people to distinguish between their informed opinion, what they believe after hearing from the group (which should typically match the group opinion); and their naive opinion, what they would believe if they didn&#039;t know the group opinion. The group consensus should be based on combining naive opinions rather than informed opinions. People need to reveal both and make clear which is which. They would still use their informed opinions to make decisions, but they need to also expose their naive opinions. (Unfortunately I can&#039;t see how to apply this to markets, where only the informed opinion will guide people&#039;s trades, leading to the familiar problem of bubbles.)

Emotional groupthink is where people try to punish those who depart from the consensus. I confess I don&#039;t understand this part of the problem. But perhaps some fraction of groupthink is rational and could be addressed as I have described.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would distinguish between rational groupthink and emotional groupthink.</p>
<p>Groupthink can be rational. A group opinion is more likely to be right than my opinion, so it is rational to adopt the group opinion. But if everyone does this, it leads to information cascades, where an idea that gets a head start becomes entrenched even though nobody would believe it on their own.</p>
<p>Avoiding rational groupthink requires people to distinguish between their informed opinion, what they believe after hearing from the group (which should typically match the group opinion); and their naive opinion, what they would believe if they didn&#8217;t know the group opinion. The group consensus should be based on combining naive opinions rather than informed opinions. People need to reveal both and make clear which is which. They would still use their informed opinions to make decisions, but they need to also expose their naive opinions. (Unfortunately I can&#8217;t see how to apply this to markets, where only the informed opinion will guide people&#8217;s trades, leading to the familiar problem of bubbles.)</p>
<p>Emotional groupthink is where people try to punish those who depart from the consensus. I confess I don&#8217;t understand this part of the problem. But perhaps some fraction of groupthink is rational and could be addressed as I have described.</p>
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		<title>By: Kenny Evitt</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/07/who-will-fight-group-think.html#comment-430641</link>
		<dc:creator>Kenny Evitt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Jul 2009 16:55:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overcomingbias.com/?p=19152#comment-430641</guid>
		<description>Aren&#039;t prediction markets &lt;em&gt;your&lt;/em&gt; neglected contrarian idea? What&#039;s the &#039;prediction market&#039; that will overcome the existing groupthink opposed to prediction markets that will impel people to adopt prediction markets?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Aren&#8217;t prediction markets <em>your</em> neglected contrarian idea? What&#8217;s the &#8216;prediction market&#8217; that will overcome the existing groupthink opposed to prediction markets that will impel people to adopt prediction markets?</p>
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		<title>By: Kenny Evitt</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/07/who-will-fight-group-think.html#comment-430640</link>
		<dc:creator>Kenny Evitt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Jul 2009 16:53:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overcomingbias.com/?p=19152#comment-430640</guid>
		<description>Ha!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ha!</p>
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		<title>By: Explodicle</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/07/who-will-fight-group-think.html#comment-430634</link>
		<dc:creator>Explodicle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Jul 2009 13:45:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overcomingbias.com/?p=19152#comment-430634</guid>
		<description>I agree with all you guys, groupthink is bad.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with all you guys, groupthink is bad.</p>
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		<title>By: Eric Johnson</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/07/who-will-fight-group-think.html#comment-430629</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Johnson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Jul 2009 12:39:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overcomingbias.com/?p=19152#comment-430629</guid>
		<description>A prediction market itself could possibly provide prestige prizes. 

I haven&#039;t read Robin&#039;s tracts. He&#039;s probably addressed the following. But I think you could have an option to pre-register publicly whatever bets you like. Whoever makes $10 million in one field publicly will start to be listened to, you can bet. Not to mention a billion. People with worse-than-average predictions are already incented to depart the prediction market because they lose money - eventually, anyway, though not immediately - and the best are already incented to dominate the market by putting more money in. Yet people will probably look to the opinion of such magnates as well as looking at the position of the prediction market itself, since the latter&#039;s signal is slightly worsened by entries from people who haven&#039;t decided yet whether they are consistently beating the average or not. 

It&#039;s like Warren Buffet. When Buffet says something about finance, business, or the economy, one might suspect what he says of possibly being self-interested. But suspect him as being full of hot air? Not likely to be true - at least not compared to just about anyone else.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A prediction market itself could possibly provide prestige prizes. </p>
<p>I haven&#8217;t read Robin&#8217;s tracts. He&#8217;s probably addressed the following. But I think you could have an option to pre-register publicly whatever bets you like. Whoever makes $10 million in one field publicly will start to be listened to, you can bet. Not to mention a billion. People with worse-than-average predictions are already incented to depart the prediction market because they lose money &#8211; eventually, anyway, though not immediately &#8211; and the best are already incented to dominate the market by putting more money in. Yet people will probably look to the opinion of such magnates as well as looking at the position of the prediction market itself, since the latter&#8217;s signal is slightly worsened by entries from people who haven&#8217;t decided yet whether they are consistently beating the average or not. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s like Warren Buffet. When Buffet says something about finance, business, or the economy, one might suspect what he says of possibly being self-interested. But suspect him as being full of hot air? Not likely to be true &#8211; at least not compared to just about anyone else.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert Wiblin</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/07/who-will-fight-group-think.html#comment-430622</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Wiblin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Jul 2009 03:17:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overcomingbias.com/?p=19152#comment-430622</guid>
		<description>Obviously prediction markets are good, but another incentive for accurate contrarianism might be high prestige-prizes for people who have gone out on a limb and were right about something important when most of their colleagues thought they were wrong.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Obviously prediction markets are good, but another incentive for accurate contrarianism might be high prestige-prizes for people who have gone out on a limb and were right about something important when most of their colleagues thought they were wrong.</p>
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		<title>By: q</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/07/who-will-fight-group-think.html#comment-430621</link>
		<dc:creator>q</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Jul 2009 02:27:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overcomingbias.com/?p=19152#comment-430621</guid>
		<description>if you want not to have another bubble like the housing bubble, you have to make sure that there are well-paying high prestige jobs for the contrarians.  not going to happen.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>if you want not to have another bubble like the housing bubble, you have to make sure that there are well-paying high prestige jobs for the contrarians.  not going to happen.</p>
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