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	<title>Comments on: Missing Liberaltarians</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/05/selfmade-men-are-not-made-in-bedrooms.html/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/05/selfmade-men-are-not-made-in-bedrooms.html</link>
	<description>Overcoming Bias is economist Robin Hanson’s blog, on honesty, signaling, disagreement, forecasting, and the far future.</description>
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		<title>By: David T</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/05/selfmade-men-are-not-made-in-bedrooms.html#comment-442307</link>
		<dc:creator>David T</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Feb 2010 08:41:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2009/05/missing-liberaltarians.html#comment-442307</guid>
		<description>The reason that libertarians--in the contemporary American sense--hang out more with conservatives trhan with liberals is that they *are* conservatives.  This is obviously so on economic issues which are historically  the important issues dividing Left  from Right. As for other issues, not all conservatives favor an interventionist foreign policy and most of them don&#039;t support suppression of homosexual acts any  more, though they do oppose gay marriage. And some libertarians are pro-life.

In Europe, of course, libertarian still refers to what it did in the nineteenth century--the anarchist and anarcho-syndicalist wing of the revolutionary Left.  I am not sure who stole the word in America for the pro-capitalist Right--Murray Rothbard?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The reason that libertarians&#8211;in the contemporary American sense&#8211;hang out more with conservatives trhan with liberals is that they *are* conservatives.  This is obviously so on economic issues which are historically  the important issues dividing Left  from Right. As for other issues, not all conservatives favor an interventionist foreign policy and most of them don&#8217;t support suppression of homosexual acts any  more, though they do oppose gay marriage. And some libertarians are pro-life.</p>
<p>In Europe, of course, libertarian still refers to what it did in the nineteenth century&#8211;the anarchist and anarcho-syndicalist wing of the revolutionary Left.  I am not sure who stole the word in America for the pro-capitalist Right&#8211;Murray Rothbard?</p>
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		<title>By: Doug S.</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/05/selfmade-men-are-not-made-in-bedrooms.html#comment-435640</link>
		<dc:creator>Doug S.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Nov 2009 05:02:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2009/05/missing-liberaltarians.html#comment-435640</guid>
		<description>[irony]
&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.leftycartoons.com/libertarian-freedom/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Indeed.&lt;/a&gt;
[/irony]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[irony]<br />
<a href="http://www.leftycartoons.com/libertarian-freedom/" rel="nofollow">Indeed.</a><br />
[/irony]</p>
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		<title>By: JB</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/05/selfmade-men-are-not-made-in-bedrooms.html#comment-435610</link>
		<dc:creator>JB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Nov 2009 06:14:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2009/05/missing-liberaltarians.html#comment-435610</guid>
		<description>This post is goofy.  Libertarians are more aligned with economic conservatives because economic rights trump social rights.

Who cares if drugs and prostitutes are legal when the government is taxing you at a 90% rate and you have no money to spend on them?

You can always buy social freedom with money.  The reverse does not work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This post is goofy.  Libertarians are more aligned with economic conservatives because economic rights trump social rights.</p>
<p>Who cares if drugs and prostitutes are legal when the government is taxing you at a 90% rate and you have no money to spend on them?</p>
<p>You can always buy social freedom with money.  The reverse does not work.</p>
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		<title>By: infopractical</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/05/selfmade-men-are-not-made-in-bedrooms.html#comment-430868</link>
		<dc:creator>infopractical</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Jul 2009 23:20:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2009/05/missing-liberaltarians.html#comment-430868</guid>
		<description>I think that most libertarians come to the conclusion that economic freedoms precede other forms of freedom, so it&#039;s easier to side with groups that [at least in theory] work to preserve economic freedom first and foremost.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that most libertarians come to the conclusion that economic freedoms precede other forms of freedom, so it&#8217;s easier to side with groups that [at least in theory] work to preserve economic freedom first and foremost.</p>
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		<title>By: Kenneth Hopf</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/05/selfmade-men-are-not-made-in-bedrooms.html#comment-428909</link>
		<dc:creator>Kenneth Hopf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Jun 2009 14:57:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2009/05/missing-liberaltarians.html#comment-428909</guid>
		<description>I still have much to read in this blog.  But I want to take a moment to second what Peter Twieg says.  

I guess &quot;liberaltarian&quot; describes me as well, though I tend to prefer the label &quot;market liberal&quot;, which was first suggested to me by Michael Rothschild (author of Bionomics).  Anyway, the problem I&#039;ve always had when consorting with so called liberals is that they seem to think the injunction against ad hominem doesn&#039;t apply to them.  It is routine to hear them talking about how stupid conservatives and libertarians are.  Conservatives also don&#039;t agree with me.  But they don&#039;t call me a moron either.

I suspect the root cause of this, suggested to me many years ago by the psychologist Peter Breggin, is that liberals believe they have a monopoly on good intentions.  This is reinforced by their intellectual history, which embraces the notion of class struggle.  The rise and fall of Nazism in the 20th century also did a lot to cement the notion of leftists as good guys, and everyone else as plain evil.  

Outside of politics, I prefer the company of liberals.  But Peter, I think, is quite right when he says that they simply do not understand what markets accomplish, or why we cannot do without markets.  They are constructivists in Hayek&#039;s sense of the word.  They are the people who inspire the observation that the road to hell is paved with good intentions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I still have much to read in this blog.  But I want to take a moment to second what Peter Twieg says.  </p>
<p>I guess &#8220;liberaltarian&#8221; describes me as well, though I tend to prefer the label &#8220;market liberal&#8221;, which was first suggested to me by Michael Rothschild (author of Bionomics).  Anyway, the problem I&#8217;ve always had when consorting with so called liberals is that they seem to think the injunction against ad hominem doesn&#8217;t apply to them.  It is routine to hear them talking about how stupid conservatives and libertarians are.  Conservatives also don&#8217;t agree with me.  But they don&#8217;t call me a moron either.</p>
<p>I suspect the root cause of this, suggested to me many years ago by the psychologist Peter Breggin, is that liberals believe they have a monopoly on good intentions.  This is reinforced by their intellectual history, which embraces the notion of class struggle.  The rise and fall of Nazism in the 20th century also did a lot to cement the notion of leftists as good guys, and everyone else as plain evil.  </p>
<p>Outside of politics, I prefer the company of liberals.  But Peter, I think, is quite right when he says that they simply do not understand what markets accomplish, or why we cannot do without markets.  They are constructivists in Hayek&#8217;s sense of the word.  They are the people who inspire the observation that the road to hell is paved with good intentions.</p>
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		<title>By: Liberaltariansim and Women &#171; Technagora</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/05/selfmade-men-are-not-made-in-bedrooms.html#comment-424872</link>
		<dc:creator>Liberaltariansim and Women &#171; Technagora</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 May 2009 21:34:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2009/05/missing-liberaltarians.html#comment-424872</guid>
		<description>[...] realized that the Democrats were going to clean up in the 2008 elections). Robin Hanson recently suggested that the reason this alliance won&#8217;t work is because the standard libetarian [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] realized that the Democrats were going to clean up in the 2008 elections). Robin Hanson recently suggested that the reason this alliance won&#8217;t work is because the standard libetarian [...]</p>
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		<title>By: will mcbride</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/05/selfmade-men-are-not-made-in-bedrooms.html#comment-425358</link>
		<dc:creator>will mcbride</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 May 2009 01:01:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2009/05/missing-liberaltarians.html#comment-425358</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Conservatives and libertarians share the ethic of freedom.  Liberals coalesce more around the ideas of education and progress.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Conservatives and libertarians share the ethic of freedom.  Liberals coalesce more around the ideas of education and progress.</p>
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		<title>By: ac</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/05/selfmade-men-are-not-made-in-bedrooms.html#comment-425357</link>
		<dc:creator>ac</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 May 2009 19:31:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2009/05/missing-liberaltarians.html#comment-425357</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Left wing libertarians/anarchists don&#039;t hang out in the same think-tank and academic circles you do Robin.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Left wing libertarians/anarchists don&#8217;t hang out in the same think-tank and academic circles you do Robin.</p>
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		<title>By: Anthony</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/05/selfmade-men-are-not-made-in-bedrooms.html#comment-425356</link>
		<dc:creator>Anthony</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 May 2009 18:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2009/05/missing-liberaltarians.html#comment-425356</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Libertarians are more naturally supporters of the right than the left because outside the sexual sphere, the right is more supportive of personal freedom than is the left.  The right supports higher speed limits, homeschooling, private schools, and more choice in public schools, gun ownership, recreational use of wilderness, and removal of violent criminals from society, while the left opposes all these things. &lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Libertarians are more naturally supporters of the right than the left because outside the sexual sphere, the right is more supportive of personal freedom than is the left.  The right supports higher speed limits, homeschooling, private schools, and more choice in public schools, gun ownership, recreational use of wilderness, and removal of violent criminals from society, while the left opposes all these things. </p>
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		<title>By: Erica</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/05/selfmade-men-are-not-made-in-bedrooms.html#comment-425355</link>
		<dc:creator>Erica</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 May 2009 16:48:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2009/05/missing-liberaltarians.html#comment-425355</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Constant wrote, re drug policy and the draft:&lt;br&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; I&#039;m not arguing that conservatives are better. I&#039;m only arguing that the common perception that liberals are good in these areas is greatly exaggerated.&gt;&gt;&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I agree that the Democrats we&#039;ve had in power have done no better on these issues than the Republicans. But we haven&#039;t had a strong popular movement to hold either side&#039;s feet to the fire.  Democrats are war-mongers and drug-outlawers out of fear of Republicans calling them weak on defense and weak on crime, rather than because they think war is good and drugs are bad. It&#039;s relatively easy to get liberals to join a movement; it&#039;s relatively hard to get libertarians to join -- my experience is that they have to feel personally targeted. During the Vietnam War, I believe many libertarians did protest the draft, leading to the end of the war. If they felt pot smoking would send them to prison, I think libertarians might join with pot-smoking liberals, to push for legalization. But, for the most part, the state knows better than to go after white, educated pot-smokers.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Constant wrote, re drug policy and the draft:<br />
&gt;&gt;&gt; I&#8217;m not arguing that conservatives are better. I&#8217;m only arguing that the common perception that liberals are good in these areas is greatly exaggerated.&gt;&gt;&gt;</p>
<p>I agree that the Democrats we&#8217;ve had in power have done no better on these issues than the Republicans. But we haven&#8217;t had a strong popular movement to hold either side&#8217;s feet to the fire.  Democrats are war-mongers and drug-outlawers out of fear of Republicans calling them weak on defense and weak on crime, rather than because they think war is good and drugs are bad. It&#8217;s relatively easy to get liberals to join a movement; it&#8217;s relatively hard to get libertarians to join &#8212; my experience is that they have to feel personally targeted. During the Vietnam War, I believe many libertarians did protest the draft, leading to the end of the war. If they felt pot smoking would send them to prison, I think libertarians might join with pot-smoking liberals, to push for legalization. But, for the most part, the state knows better than to go after white, educated pot-smokers.</p>
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