Comments on: Prestige Matters More For Smarts http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/04/prestige-matters-more-for-smarts.html Overcoming Bias is economist Robin Hanson’s blog, on honesty, signaling, disagreement, forecasting, and the far future. Sun, 12 Feb 2012 04:20:14 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.3 By: Lissette http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/04/prestige-matters-more-for-smarts.html#comment-430156 Lissette Tue, 14 Jul 2009 14:47:04 +0000 http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2009/04/prestige-matters-more-for-smarts.html#comment-430156 Salacious......Tru dat! Salacious……Tru dat!

]]> By: Robin Hanson http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/04/prestige-matters-more-for-smarts.html#comment-384765 Robin Hanson Tue, 28 Apr 2009 13:10:05 +0000 http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2009/04/prestige-matters-more-for-smarts.html#comment-384765 Zubon, good summary. Zubon, good summary.

]]> By: mariana http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/04/prestige-matters-more-for-smarts.html#comment-384764 mariana Tue, 28 Apr 2009 11:01:16 +0000 http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2009/04/prestige-matters-more-for-smarts.html#comment-384764 The answer to your question is obvious, of course people who have a broader perception of reality and how it affects them are going to be more concerned about aquiring the advantages that reality can provide them. The answer to your question is obvious, of course people who have a broader perception of reality and how it affects them are going to be more concerned about aquiring the advantages that reality can provide them.

]]> By: noel http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/04/prestige-matters-more-for-smarts.html#comment-384763 noel Tue, 28 Apr 2009 02:43:03 +0000 http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2009/04/prestige-matters-more-for-smarts.html#comment-384763 Your social institutions must be run by much smarter people than my social institutions. Your social institutions must be run by much smarter people than my social institutions.

]]> By: Barkley Rosser http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/04/prestige-matters-more-for-smarts.html#comment-384762 Barkley Rosser Mon, 27 Apr 2009 21:12:25 +0000 http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2009/04/prestige-matters-more-for-smarts.html#comment-384762 Well, of course the prize/award for the really smart that even the supposedly humble sigma 5 types crave is the Nobel, and all its vicissitudes, although there is the occasional exception among this crowd who remains humble, or at least is smart enough to put on a good act of doing so, :-). Otherwise, I would tend to agree that the sorts of people who make big deals about their titles and degrees (I am Herr Doctor Doktor Professor!!!) tend not to be at the highest level, trying too hard to prove that they are. The games that do get played at those higher levels tend to be a bit more subtle... Well, of course the prize/award for the really smart that even the supposedly humble sigma 5 types crave is the Nobel, and all its vicissitudes, although there is the occasional exception among this crowd who remains humble, or at least is smart enough to put on a good act of doing so, :-) .

Otherwise, I would tend to agree that the sorts of people who make big deals about their titles and degrees (I am Herr Doctor Doktor Professor!!!) tend not to be at the highest level, trying too hard to prove that they are. The games that do get played at those higher levels tend to be a bit more subtle…

]]> By: Tim Tyler http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/04/prestige-matters-more-for-smarts.html#comment-384761 Tim Tyler Mon, 27 Apr 2009 20:42:40 +0000 http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2009/04/prestige-matters-more-for-smarts.html#comment-384761 Sorry if this is rather off topic - but a big welcome to Peter Norvig! Please stick around - to give the residents a chance to pick your brains ;-) Sorry if this is rather off topic – but a big welcome to Peter Norvig! Please stick around – to give the residents a chance to pick your brains ;-)

]]> By: Zubon http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/04/prestige-matters-more-for-smarts.html#comment-384760 Zubon Mon, 27 Apr 2009 14:29:00 +0000 http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2009/04/prestige-matters-more-for-smarts.html#comment-384760 I would think that asd's point is the same as Robin Hanson's. People who are as smart as you (or smarter) can tell how smart you are; less intelligent people cannot. If you are above-average, the majority of the population has some vague notion that you have brain, but differences in degree are all gone. You presumably will want things from the mass of the population that is unable to recognize your brilliance. You get those letters after your name so that <em>they</em> will care and give you proper deference. This is probably most relevant a couple of standard deviations out. If you are one deviation above average, "smart" is about as specific as you want it to get, because the majority of above-average people are above you. At two deviations, you are smarter than the majority of people who are smarter than the majority; you need some signal for the unwashed masses that you are Much Better, not just Better, so that they do not give equal weight to the views of those who are merely "smart." And then you tier up a few times, and the 1-in-a-million person often has trouble communicating with the million, so the signal is not helping him much except to point out to the 1-in-a-thousands that he deserves more grant funding. See Jef Allbright's comment. Add or subtract some of the pomposity or condescension there based on whether people are recognizing your genius or just the preening of that pretentious jerk over there. I would think that asd’s point is the same as Robin Hanson’s. People who are as smart as you (or smarter) can tell how smart you are; less intelligent people cannot. If you are above-average, the majority of the population has some vague notion that you have brain, but differences in degree are all gone. You presumably will want things from the mass of the population that is unable to recognize your brilliance. You get those letters after your name so that they will care and give you proper deference.

This is probably most relevant a couple of standard deviations out. If you are one deviation above average, “smart” is about as specific as you want it to get, because the majority of above-average people are above you. At two deviations, you are smarter than the majority of people who are smarter than the majority; you need some signal for the unwashed masses that you are Much Better, not just Better, so that they do not give equal weight to the views of those who are merely “smart.” And then you tier up a few times, and the 1-in-a-million person often has trouble communicating with the million, so the signal is not helping him much except to point out to the 1-in-a-thousands that he deserves more grant funding. See Jef Allbright’s comment.

Add or subtract some of the pomposity or condescension there based on whether people are recognizing your genius or just the preening of that pretentious jerk over there.

]]> By: Robin Hanson http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/04/prestige-matters-more-for-smarts.html#comment-384759 Robin Hanson Mon, 27 Apr 2009 13:33:38 +0000 http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2009/04/prestige-matters-more-for-smarts.html#comment-384759 Peter, Oscars etc. are clearly based on more than looks. Katja and Rob, yes that is a similar effect. salacious, yes of course every signal is of a complex bundle of features. asd, Jef, Paul, no doubt there is some countersignaling, but also lots of overestimation of relevant own abilities. Peter, Oscars etc. are clearly based on more than looks.

Katja and Rob, yes that is a similar effect.

salacious, yes of course every signal is of a complex bundle of features.

asd, Jef, Paul, no doubt there is some countersignaling, but also lots of overestimation of relevant own abilities.

]]> By: salacious http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/04/prestige-matters-more-for-smarts.html#comment-384758 salacious Mon, 27 Apr 2009 07:57:08 +0000 http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2009/04/prestige-matters-more-for-smarts.html#comment-384758 Acquiring degrees and other intelligence related prestige symbols requires other attributes in addition to intelligence. You need drive, organization, a good work ethic and (some) interpersonal skills. Not everyone in Jef's second tier is going to have all these qualities. Credential seekers could be seeking to validate these attributes as well--not just intelligence, but competence, the ability to apply intelligence to some arbitrary task. An incredibly smart, yet absent minded genius is, as a general rule, less useful than a slightly dumber guy who has his shit together. Acquiring degrees and other intelligence related prestige symbols requires other attributes in addition to intelligence. You need drive, organization, a good work ethic and (some) interpersonal skills. Not everyone in Jef’s second tier is going to have all these qualities. Credential seekers could be seeking to validate these attributes as well–not just intelligence, but competence, the ability to apply intelligence to some arbitrary task. An incredibly smart, yet absent minded genius is, as a general rule, less useful than a slightly dumber guy who has his shit together.

]]> By: Paul Gowder http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/04/prestige-matters-more-for-smarts.html#comment-384757 Paul Gowder Mon, 27 Apr 2009 04:55:49 +0000 http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2009/04/prestige-matters-more-for-smarts.html#comment-384757 Jef and asd, some of what you report can probably be accounted for by countersignaling. Jef and asd, some of what you report can probably be accounted for by countersignaling.

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