Comments on: Tribal Biases and the Inauguration http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/01/tribal-biases-and-the-inauguration.html Overcoming Bias is economist Robin Hanson’s blog, on honesty, signaling, disagreement, forecasting, and the far future. Sun, 12 Feb 2012 04:20:14 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.3 By: Voting Anarchists | Against Politics http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/01/tribal-biases-and-the-inauguration.html#comment-671933 Voting Anarchists | Against Politics Mon, 09 Jan 2012 23:47:17 +0000 http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2009/01/tribal-biases-and-the-inauguration.html#comment-671933 [...] Patri Friedman has observed at Overcoming [...] [...] Patri Friedman has observed at Overcoming [...]

]]> By: Michael Martin http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/01/tribal-biases-and-the-inauguration.html#comment-388374 Michael Martin Fri, 30 Jan 2009 23:11:29 +0000 http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2009/01/tribal-biases-and-the-inauguration.html#comment-388374 There's a false premise here in the criticism here. It is not a foregone conclusion that "common purpose" and "collective action" must be acheieved through more centralized planning. Obama's election, in fact, was a triumph of decentralized coordination through consistent communication of focal points for action. It's impossible to ignore the more centralized structure of decisionmaking within the Obama Whitehouse; but this doesn't mean that his vision of common purpose and collective action is predicated on affirmative acts of government. See, for example, the commitments to increased transparency and elimination of "waste." We'll see how things play out. But I'm still of the mind that the Obama adminstration may be go down in the books as classical liberal in the vein of J.S. Mill. There’s a false premise here in the criticism here. It is not a foregone conclusion that “common purpose” and “collective action” must be acheieved through more centralized planning. Obama’s election, in fact, was a triumph of decentralized coordination through consistent communication of focal points for action. It’s impossible to ignore the more centralized structure of decisionmaking within the Obama Whitehouse; but this doesn’t mean that his vision of common purpose and collective action is predicated on affirmative acts of government. See, for example, the commitments to increased transparency and elimination of “waste.” We’ll see how things play out. But I’m still of the mind that the Obama adminstration may be go down in the books as classical liberal in the vein of J.S. Mill.

]]> By: Andrew S http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/01/tribal-biases-and-the-inauguration.html#comment-388373 Andrew S Sat, 24 Jan 2009 20:14:23 +0000 http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2009/01/tribal-biases-and-the-inauguration.html#comment-388373 What does the empirical evidence show? Are the strong economies of the world those that are highly centralized, or regionalized? Do countries with strong nationalism do better than those without? What does the empirical evidence show? Are the strong economies of the world those that are highly centralized, or regionalized? Do countries with strong nationalism do better than those without?

]]> By: Grant http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/01/tribal-biases-and-the-inauguration.html#comment-388372 Grant Fri, 23 Jan 2009 05:42:51 +0000 http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2009/01/tribal-biases-and-the-inauguration.html#comment-388372 I still say most "we should do this" political speak is done to signal intelligence and loyalty to a political group. When was the last time anyone complained about politics in casual conversation and actually thought their complaints would make a significant difference? I still say most “we should do this” political speak is done to signal intelligence and loyalty to a political group. When was the last time anyone complained about politics in casual conversation and actually thought their complaints would make a significant difference?

]]> By: Hopefully Anonymous http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/01/tribal-biases-and-the-inauguration.html#comment-388371 Hopefully Anonymous Fri, 23 Jan 2009 05:17:22 +0000 http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2009/01/tribal-biases-and-the-inauguration.html#comment-388371 Great synthetic post. However, perhaps you shouldn't advise people not to get onto that soap box. I think the next big discussion topic for us OB types is going to be "animal spirits" -I notice a book or two coming out with that title- and getting people to engage in activity, including utilizing soap boxes, may help boost productivity, or at least, liquidity of resources (which could aid their more efficient allocation). Great synthetic post.
However, perhaps you shouldn’t advise people not to get onto that soap box. I think the next big discussion topic for us OB types is going to be “animal spirits” -I notice a book or two coming out with that title- and getting people to engage in activity, including utilizing soap boxes, may help boost productivity, or at least, liquidity of resources (which could aid their more efficient allocation).

]]> By: komponisto http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/01/tribal-biases-and-the-inauguration.html#comment-388370 komponisto Fri, 23 Jan 2009 02:53:57 +0000 http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2009/01/tribal-biases-and-the-inauguration.html#comment-388370 <i>I'm sure it's not apparent under American style psuedo-democracy, but...[h]ere in Canada...</i> <a href="http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Barack_Obama_elected_44th_President_of_the_United_States" rel="nofollow">Um</a>... <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Canadian_political_crisis" rel="nofollow">what</a>? As for the "resolution" of representation, on average each member of the U.S. House represents around 700,000 people. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_House_of_Representatives). And yes, it is easier than people think for one person to become influential, due to self-selection of the political class. Sarah Palin went to some PTA meetings and ended up as governor a few years later. This sort of story is common, from what I can tell. I’m sure it’s not apparent under American style psuedo-democracy, but…[h]ere in Canada…

Um… what?

As for the “resolution” of representation, on average each member of the U.S. House represents around 700,000 people. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_House_of_Representatives).

And yes, it is easier than people think for one person to become influential, due to self-selection of the political class. Sarah Palin went to some PTA meetings and ended up as governor a few years later. This sort of story is common, from what I can tell.

]]> By: Michael Kirkland http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/01/tribal-biases-and-the-inauguration.html#comment-388369 Michael Kirkland Fri, 23 Jan 2009 00:48:08 +0000 http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2009/01/tribal-biases-and-the-inauguration.html#comment-388369 The world wars quite fully disprove your point. Not only nations, but groups of nations had to pull together for mutual support. Citibank (and it's contemporaries) cannot be allowed to fail outright. They need to be nationalized and dismantled into smaller entities, and not allowed to re-metastasize. As for politics, it's the rare individual that can impact things on a national level, but a lot more can influence their riding. I'm sure it's not apparent under American style psuedo-democracy, but I can talk to my Member of Parliament and influence her views. What's the highest resolution in American national politics? Half a state? Here in Canada it's about 100,000 people per MP, including minors. Sure, that's well beyond a Dunbar tribe, but elections are quite often within an order of magnitude or two of Dunbar's number. The world wars quite fully disprove your point. Not only nations, but groups of nations had to pull together for mutual support.

Citibank (and it’s contemporaries) cannot be allowed to fail outright. They need to be nationalized and dismantled into smaller entities, and not allowed to re-metastasize.

As for politics, it’s the rare individual that can impact things on a national level, but a lot more can influence their riding. I’m sure it’s not apparent under American style psuedo-democracy, but I can talk to my Member of Parliament and influence her views.

What’s the highest resolution in American national politics? Half a state? Here in Canada it’s about 100,000 people per MP, including minors. Sure, that’s well beyond a Dunbar tribe, but elections are quite often within an order of magnitude or two of Dunbar’s number.

]]> By: Caledonian http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/01/tribal-biases-and-the-inauguration.html#comment-388368 Caledonian Thu, 22 Jan 2009 20:07:38 +0000 http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2009/01/tribal-biases-and-the-inauguration.html#comment-388368 <blockquote>a good way for people to indulge in irrational partisanship with no major adverse effects.</blockquote> I can think of at least two: 1) Every moment spent enjoying mindless partisanship actively works against the development of resistance to it. 2) It makes it harder to convince people that they need to develop resistance, because it's an obvious example of a highly enjoyable and seemingly harmless form of consciousness-submission.

a good way for people to indulge in irrational partisanship with no major adverse effects.

I can think of at least two:

1) Every moment spent enjoying mindless partisanship actively works against the development of resistance to it.
2) It makes it harder to convince people that they need to develop resistance, because it’s an obvious example of a highly enjoyable and seemingly harmless form of consciousness-submission.

]]> By: spacenookie http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/01/tribal-biases-and-the-inauguration.html#comment-388367 spacenookie Thu, 22 Jan 2009 19:52:25 +0000 http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2009/01/tribal-biases-and-the-inauguration.html#comment-388367 If you look at it from the point of view of evolutionary psychology, experiences with groups of larger than maybe 50-75 people would have been extremely rare in the EER. I think you could say that people have a level of interest in politics AS IF they lived in social groups of no more than 150 people and that group regularly made personally relevant life-death decisions (as in the EER). If you look at it from the point of view of evolutionary psychology, experiences with groups of larger than maybe 50-75 people would have been extremely rare in the EER.

I think you could say that people have a level of interest in politics AS IF they lived in social groups of no more than 150 people and that group regularly made personally relevant life-death decisions (as in the EER).

]]> By: sciencebzzt http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/01/tribal-biases-and-the-inauguration.html#comment-388366 sciencebzzt Thu, 22 Jan 2009 15:52:40 +0000 http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2009/01/tribal-biases-and-the-inauguration.html#comment-388366 very Shermer-esque http://www.michaelshermer.com/2008/01/why-people-dont-trust-free-markets/ very Shermer-esque

http://www.michaelshermer.com/2008/01/why-people-dont-trust-free-markets/

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