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	<title>Comments on: Intelligent Design Honesty</title>
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	<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2008/09/intelligent-des.html</link>
	<description>Overcoming Bias is economist Robin Hanson’s blog, on honesty, signaling, disagreement, forecasting, and the far future.</description>
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		<title>By: billswift</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2008/09/intelligent-des.html#comment-426534</link>
		<dc:creator>billswift</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Oct 2008 12:28:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2008/09/intelligent-design-honesty.html#comment-426534</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I used to read Panda&#039;s Thumb regularly, back when there were sometimes hundreds of comments with the IDiots and biologically competent going at it.  Both the defenders of ID in these comments, and those, fall into two main categories: first, the few who defend Creationism in religious terms, and second, the much larger group who use variations on the argumentum ad ignorantum, that is, we don&#039;t know all the details so every possible explanation is equally true.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I used to read Panda&#8217;s Thumb regularly, back when there were sometimes hundreds of comments with the IDiots and biologically competent going at it.  Both the defenders of ID in these comments, and those, fall into two main categories: first, the few who defend Creationism in religious terms, and second, the much larger group who use variations on the argumentum ad ignorantum, that is, we don&#8217;t know all the details so every possible explanation is equally true.</p>
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		<title>By: onein6billion</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2008/09/intelligent-des.html#comment-426533</link>
		<dc:creator>onein6billion</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Oct 2008 11:11:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2008/09/intelligent-design-honesty.html#comment-426533</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&quot;What I can&#039;t endorse is the paternalism of teaching an elite academic norm that intelligence design, ghosts, UFOs, etc. are too silly to even consider, in order to correct a public biased to think these options excessively likely.&quot;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I think you&#039;re confused.  They are all too silly, but no one can afford to teach that in high school because there&#039;s not enough time to teach important things.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;&quot;ID is a theory with clear claims and explanations.&quot;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;You seem to be just plain ignorant.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;What I can&#8217;t endorse is the paternalism of teaching an elite academic norm that intelligence design, ghosts, UFOs, etc. are too silly to even consider, in order to correct a public biased to think these options excessively likely.&#8221;</p>
<p>I think you&#8217;re confused.  They are all too silly, but no one can afford to teach that in high school because there&#8217;s not enough time to teach important things.</p>
<p>&#8220;ID is a theory with clear claims and explanations.&#8221;</p>
<p>You seem to be just plain ignorant.</p>
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		<title>By: George</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2008/09/intelligent-des.html#comment-426532</link>
		<dc:creator>George</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Sep 2008 23:16:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2008/09/intelligent-design-honesty.html#comment-426532</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Why don&#039;t we just teach children that the answer to any why question is because God wants it that way or God designed it that way. That would shorten the wasteful length of time we spend on education. We good also save money on all those textbooks we spend money on and we could just have one book in the library, the Bible. After all it explains everything, how the world got created in seven days etc. While you&#039;re at it you could throw out all those medicines you take when you&#039;re sick and you won&#039;t need health insurance or expensive doctors and surgeons most of whom believe in erroneous theories such as evolution and germs (have you ever seen a germ ?). If you or your family are sick it&#039;s because for inscrutable reasons God wants it that way, so just have faith and don&#039;t worry your pretty little heads over these things&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why don&#8217;t we just teach children that the answer to any why question is because God wants it that way or God designed it that way. That would shorten the wasteful length of time we spend on education. We good also save money on all those textbooks we spend money on and we could just have one book in the library, the Bible. After all it explains everything, how the world got created in seven days etc. While you&#8217;re at it you could throw out all those medicines you take when you&#8217;re sick and you won&#8217;t need health insurance or expensive doctors and surgeons most of whom believe in erroneous theories such as evolution and germs (have you ever seen a germ ?). If you or your family are sick it&#8217;s because for inscrutable reasons God wants it that way, so just have faith and don&#8217;t worry your pretty little heads over these things</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Drake</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2008/09/intelligent-des.html#comment-426531</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Drake</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Sep 2008 14:56:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2008/09/intelligent-design-honesty.html#comment-426531</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Shorter Nagel: We should include a philosophy of science component in high school science curricula.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Okay. By why talk as if the issues were peculiar to &quot;intelligent design&quot;?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Shorter Nagel: We should include a philosophy of science component in high school science curricula.</p>
<p>Okay. By why talk as if the issues were peculiar to &#8220;intelligent design&#8221;?</p>
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		<title>By: Tim Tyler</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2008/09/intelligent-des.html#comment-426530</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Tyler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Sep 2008 10:01:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2008/09/intelligent-design-honesty.html#comment-426530</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;Intelligent design&lt;/em&gt; has its crackpot proponents - Dembski and Behe are certainly among them.  All fields have their crackpots, though.  We don&#039;t write off Darwinian theory because of the excesses of certain negative eugenics enthusaists - rather we ignore them - or else assign them to cleaning duties.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Nick Bostrom assigns the ideas that we are living in a simulation around a 20% chance of being true.  Unless there is a compelling counter-argument (resulting in assigning a much lower probability), intelligent design needs to be taken seriously.&lt;br&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>Intelligent design</em> has its crackpot proponents &#8211; Dembski and Behe are certainly among them.  All fields have their crackpots, though.  We don&#8217;t write off Darwinian theory because of the excesses of certain negative eugenics enthusaists &#8211; rather we ignore them &#8211; or else assign them to cleaning duties.</p>
<p>Nick Bostrom assigns the ideas that we are living in a simulation around a 20% chance of being true.  Unless there is a compelling counter-argument (resulting in assigning a much lower probability), intelligent design needs to be taken seriously.</p>
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		<title>By: Pablo Stafforini</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2008/09/intelligent-des.html#comment-426529</link>
		<dc:creator>Pablo Stafforini</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Sep 2008 07:46:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2008/09/intelligent-design-honesty.html#comment-426529</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Don&#039;t be disingenuous, Tim.  The hypotheses you list are not those which opponents of Darwinian evolution want to be taught in schools, and which elicit so much controversy among members of the general population.  The fine-tuning of the natural constants and conditions, the simulation hypothesis and the idea that terrestrial life originated elsewhere in the Universe are all respectable topics of debate.  &quot;Intelligent design&quot;, as advocated by the William Dembski, Michael Behe and others evangelicals affiliated to the Discovery Institute is utter rubbish, on a par with astrology, &quot;ufology&quot;, and Holocaust revisionism.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don&#8217;t be disingenuous, Tim.  The hypotheses you list are not those which opponents of Darwinian evolution want to be taught in schools, and which elicit so much controversy among members of the general population.  The fine-tuning of the natural constants and conditions, the simulation hypothesis and the idea that terrestrial life originated elsewhere in the Universe are all respectable topics of debate.  &#8220;Intelligent design&#8221;, as advocated by the William Dembski, Michael Behe and others evangelicals affiliated to the Discovery Institute is utter rubbish, on a par with astrology, &#8220;ufology&#8221;, and Holocaust revisionism.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim Tyler</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2008/09/intelligent-des.html#comment-426528</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Tyler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Sep 2008 05:19:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2008/09/intelligent-design-honesty.html#comment-426528</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I previously posted my list of the remaining potentially-viable intelligent design hypotheses on this thread:&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;em&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://originoflife.net/intelligent_design/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://originoflife.net/intelligent_design/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Want to claim that intelligent design is unscientific or disproven?  Those are the hypotheses you need to address - not a load of outdated, historical claptrap.&lt;br&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I previously posted my list of the remaining potentially-viable intelligent design hypotheses on this thread:</p>
</p>
<blockquote><p><em><a href="http://originoflife.net/intelligent_design/" rel="nofollow">http://originoflife.net/intelligent_design/</a></em></p></blockquote>
<p>Want to claim that intelligent design is unscientific or disproven?  Those are the hypotheses you need to address &#8211; not a load of outdated, historical claptrap.</p>
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		<title>By: RBH</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2008/09/intelligent-des.html#comment-426527</link>
		<dc:creator>RBH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Sep 2008 03:45:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2008/09/intelligent-design-honesty.html#comment-426527</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;A field of straw men is on the loose.  Where to start?&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Robin wrote&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;What I can&#039;t endorse is the paternalism of teaching an elite academic norm that intelligence design, ghosts, UFOs, etc. are too silly to even consider, in order to correct a public biased to think these options excessively likely.&lt;/blockquote&gt;&quot;Silly&quot; and &quot;flat wrong&quot; are not synonyms.

&lt;p&gt;The &quot;paternalism&quot; of teaching excellent science is so that students learn ... well, excellent science.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Intelligent design &lt;i&gt;has&lt;/i&gt; been considered, and demonstrably failed.  In the end it offered no explanation at all.  By the late 20th century, after the failures of natural theology and &quot;scientific&quot; creationism, it had been boiled down (by current ID proponents) to &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;Sometime or other some agent(s) designed something or other, and then somehow or other manufactured that thing in matter and energy, all the while leaving no independent evidence of the design process, the manufacturing process, or the presence (or even the existence) of the designing and manufacturing agent(s).&lt;/blockquote&gt;One can cover that in about 60 seconds, leaving the rest of the class period for genuinely productive activities.

&lt;p&gt;Kitcher&#039;s analysis is dead on: He calls ID &quot;dead science&quot; and its proponents &quot;resurrection men.&quot;  My undergraduate students read Paley and Cuvier (the latter in translation), and then go on to Darwin and then on to the modern synthesis, thence to molecular biology and genetics and finally evo-devo.  So they see how intelligent design tried and how it failed.  But that&#039;s a semester-long college course dedicated to just that topic.  Try it in a secondary school in a one-week unit taught by the assistant football coach.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A field of straw men is on the loose.  Where to start?</p>
<p>Robin wrote</p>
<blockquote><p>What I can&#8217;t endorse is the paternalism of teaching an elite academic norm that intelligence design, ghosts, UFOs, etc. are too silly to even consider, in order to correct a public biased to think these options excessively likely.</p></blockquote>
<p>&#8220;Silly&#8221; and &#8220;flat wrong&#8221; are not synonyms.</p>
<p>The &#8220;paternalism&#8221; of teaching excellent science is so that students learn &#8230; well, excellent science.</p>
<p>Intelligent design <i>has</i> been considered, and demonstrably failed.  In the end it offered no explanation at all.  By the late 20th century, after the failures of natural theology and &#8220;scientific&#8221; creationism, it had been boiled down (by current ID proponents) to </p>
<blockquote><p>Sometime or other some agent(s) designed something or other, and then somehow or other manufactured that thing in matter and energy, all the while leaving no independent evidence of the design process, the manufacturing process, or the presence (or even the existence) of the designing and manufacturing agent(s).</p></blockquote>
<p>One can cover that in about 60 seconds, leaving the rest of the class period for genuinely productive activities.</p>
<p>Kitcher&#8217;s analysis is dead on: He calls ID &#8220;dead science&#8221; and its proponents &#8220;resurrection men.&#8221;  My undergraduate students read Paley and Cuvier (the latter in translation), and then go on to Darwin and then on to the modern synthesis, thence to molecular biology and genetics and finally evo-devo.  So they see how intelligent design tried and how it failed.  But that&#8217;s a semester-long college course dedicated to just that topic.  Try it in a secondary school in a one-week unit taught by the assistant football coach.</p>
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		<title>By: Pablo Stafforini</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2008/09/intelligent-des.html#comment-426526</link>
		<dc:creator>Pablo Stafforini</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Sep 2008 01:57:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2008/09/intelligent-design-honesty.html#comment-426526</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;In case anyone cared, the Royal Society has now issued a &lt;a href=&quot;http://royalsociety.org/news.asp?id=8004&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;statement&lt;/a&gt; clarifying the views of Professor Reiss on creationism:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;The Royal Society is opposed to creationism being taught as science.  Some media reports have misrepresented the views of Professor Michael Reiss, Director of Education at the Society expressed in a speech yesterday.

&lt;p&gt;Professor Reiss has issued the following clarification. &quot;Some of my comments about the teaching of creationism have been misinterpreted as suggesting that creationism should be taught in science classes. Creationism has no scientific basis. However, when young people ask questions about creationism in science classes, teachers need to be able to explain to them why evolution and the Big Bang are scientific theories but they should also take the time to explain how science works and why creationism has no scientific basis.  I have referred to science teachers discussing creationism as a worldview&#039;; this is not the same as lending it any scientific credibility.&quot;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Phew.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In case anyone cared, the Royal Society has now issued a <a href="http://royalsociety.org/news.asp?id=8004" rel="nofollow">statement</a> clarifying the views of Professor Reiss on creationism:</p>
<blockquote><p>The Royal Society is opposed to creationism being taught as science.  Some media reports have misrepresented the views of Professor Michael Reiss, Director of Education at the Society expressed in a speech yesterday.</p>
<p>Professor Reiss has issued the following clarification. &#8220;Some of my comments about the teaching of creationism have been misinterpreted as suggesting that creationism should be taught in science classes. Creationism has no scientific basis. However, when young people ask questions about creationism in science classes, teachers need to be able to explain to them why evolution and the Big Bang are scientific theories but they should also take the time to explain how science works and why creationism has no scientific basis.  I have referred to science teachers discussing creationism as a worldview&#8217;; this is not the same as lending it any scientific credibility.&#8221;</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Phew.</p>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2008/09/intelligent-des.html#comment-426525</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Sep 2008 19:45:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2008/09/intelligent-design-honesty.html#comment-426525</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I support teaching the controversy.  To dodge religious issues, the debate should be on whether evolution is a reasonable explanation for the origin of the species.  Religion should not be mentioned.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;The &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.overcomingbias.com/2007/07/two-more-things.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;lessons&lt;/a&gt; that kids will learn from watching adults argue diplomatically over a scientific issue is more valuable than having them all on the evolution bandwagon.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I support teaching the controversy.  To dodge religious issues, the debate should be on whether evolution is a reasonable explanation for the origin of the species.  Religion should not be mentioned.</p>
<p>The <a href="http://www.overcomingbias.com/2007/07/two-more-things.html" rel="nofollow">lessons</a> that kids will learn from watching adults argue diplomatically over a scientific issue is more valuable than having them all on the evolution bandwagon.</p>
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