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	<title>Comments on: Cowen Disses Futarchy</title>
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	<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2008/08/cowen-dises-fut.html</link>
	<description>Overcoming Bias is economist Robin Hanson’s blog, on honesty, signaling, disagreement, forecasting, and the far future.</description>
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		<title>By: Alex Martelli</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2008/08/cowen-dises-fut.html#comment-397612</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex Martelli</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Sep 2008 16:56:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2008/08/cowen-disses-futarchy.html#comment-397612</guid>
		<description>&quot;The record of representatives is strong, but I wouldn&#039;t want to use them to run an entire government.&quot;, while apparently proposed as a straw-man, seems to be a fair summary of most modern so-called &quot;democracies&quot; (not matching the definition of &quot;democracy&quot; as used in the Federalist Papers, but closer to what the Papers called a &quot;republic&quot; instead) -- rather than using elected representatives to run the ENTIRE government, they mix such representative with non-elected &quot;experts&quot; in some parts of the government AND typically some direct democracy in other parts.

Which parts of the government are run by representatives, which ones by direct democracy, and which ones by experts, differ by country (and to some extent by state, e.g. within the US), but the existence of such complex mixes is nearly universal (the Federalist Papers make a pretty good case to advocate why that should be so, in general, details apart).  So, I don&#039;t see why, similarly, &quot;new&quot; tools such as prediction markets should not be added to the mix, while remaining quite short of running the ENTIRE government.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The record of representatives is strong, but I wouldn&#8217;t want to use them to run an entire government.&#8221;, while apparently proposed as a straw-man, seems to be a fair summary of most modern so-called &#8220;democracies&#8221; (not matching the definition of &#8220;democracy&#8221; as used in the Federalist Papers, but closer to what the Papers called a &#8220;republic&#8221; instead) &#8212; rather than using elected representatives to run the ENTIRE government, they mix such representative with non-elected &#8220;experts&#8221; in some parts of the government AND typically some direct democracy in other parts.</p>
<p>Which parts of the government are run by representatives, which ones by direct democracy, and which ones by experts, differ by country (and to some extent by state, e.g. within the US), but the existence of such complex mixes is nearly universal (the Federalist Papers make a pretty good case to advocate why that should be so, in general, details apart).  So, I don&#8217;t see why, similarly, &#8220;new&#8221; tools such as prediction markets should not be added to the mix, while remaining quite short of running the ENTIRE government.</p>
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		<title>By: Prakash</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2008/08/cowen-dises-fut.html#comment-397611</link>
		<dc:creator>Prakash</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Aug 2008 08:10:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2008/08/cowen-disses-futarchy.html#comment-397611</guid>
		<description>&lt;I&gt;Have prediction markets been used for a substantial period of time to run a large part of a government?&lt;/I&gt;

Does the fed changing policy, (in this case, interest rates) just in time before the new york stock exchange opens count?

Seriously, the gyrations of the stock markets of the world are a very strong input parameter in policy making in most of the nations of the world. From my understanding of prediction markets, they should be behaving similarly. So, atleast we have an analogous situation if not an exact one.

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Have prediction markets been used for a substantial period of time to run a large part of a government?</i></p>
<p>Does the fed changing policy, (in this case, interest rates) just in time before the new york stock exchange opens count?</p>
<p>Seriously, the gyrations of the stock markets of the world are a very strong input parameter in policy making in most of the nations of the world. From my understanding of prediction markets, they should be behaving similarly. So, atleast we have an analogous situation if not an exact one.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben Jones</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2008/08/cowen-dises-fut.html#comment-397610</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben Jones</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Aug 2008 10:34:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2008/08/cowen-disses-futarchy.html#comment-397610</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Have prediction markets been used for a substantial period of time to run a large part of a government?&lt;/i&gt;

No. And once upon a time, neither had democracry.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Have prediction markets been used for a substantial period of time to run a large part of a government?</i></p>
<p>No. And once upon a time, neither had democracry.</p>
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		<title>By: Ken</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2008/08/cowen-dises-fut.html#comment-397609</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Aug 2008 05:15:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2008/08/cowen-disses-futarchy.html#comment-397609</guid>
		<description>[S] should be [X]in the above comment.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[S] should be [X]in the above comment.</p>
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		<title>By: Ken</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2008/08/cowen-dises-fut.html#comment-397608</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Aug 2008 05:14:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2008/08/cowen-disses-futarchy.html#comment-397608</guid>
		<description>&quot;The record of [X] is a strong one, but I wouldn&#039;t want to use them...&quot; -Cowen

I&#039;m always confused by statements like this. &quot;[X] is really good, but I don&#039;t think you should use it&quot;  What?  Am I missing something?  If [S] is good, use it.  Otherwise, what are you talking about?  Are you saying you don&#039;t like it and don&#039;t want to use it because of that?  That&#039;s fine, but the statement above doesn&#039;t say this.  What Cowen said is essentially contradictory.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The record of [X] is a strong one, but I wouldn&#8217;t want to use them&#8230;&#8221; -Cowen</p>
<p>I&#8217;m always confused by statements like this. &#8220;[X] is really good, but I don&#8217;t think you should use it&#8221;  What?  Am I missing something?  If [S] is good, use it.  Otherwise, what are you talking about?  Are you saying you don&#8217;t like it and don&#8217;t want to use it because of that?  That&#8217;s fine, but the statement above doesn&#8217;t say this.  What Cowen said is essentially contradictory.</p>
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		<title>By: Nick Tarleton</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2008/08/cowen-dises-fut.html#comment-397607</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick Tarleton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Aug 2008 01:12:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2008/08/cowen-disses-futarchy.html#comment-397607</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;P(My vote swings an election) &lt; P(A tornado in Kansas assembles a Boeing 747)&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;a href=&#039;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcus_Morton&#039; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;It&#039;s happened at least once&lt;/a&gt;, so this is very unlikely.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>P(My vote swings an election) < P(A tornado in Kansas assembles a Boeing 747)</p></blockquote>
<p><a href='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcus_Morton' rel="nofollow">It&#8217;s happened at least once</a>, so this is very unlikely.</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: Jay</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2008/08/cowen-dises-fut.html#comment-397606</link>
		<dc:creator>Jay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Aug 2008 00:21:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2008/08/cowen-disses-futarchy.html#comment-397606</guid>
		<description>&quot;The problem of bad governance is far too complex to be solved simply by having citizens elect representatives.&quot;

Seeing that P(My vote swings an election) &lt; P(A tornado in Kansas assembles a Boeing 747) is an issue that can not be ignored.

&quot;The record of representatives is strong,&quot;

Is without a doubt a fallacious statement (see Hugo Chavez for a starting point).
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The problem of bad governance is far too complex to be solved simply by having citizens elect representatives.&#8221;</p>
<p>Seeing that P(My vote swings an election) < P(A tornado in Kansas assembles a Boeing 747) is an issue that can not be ignored.</p>
<p>&#8220;The record of representatives is strong,&#8221;</p>
<p>Is without a doubt a fallacious statement (see Hugo Chavez for a starting point).</p>
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		<title>By: frelkins</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2008/08/cowen-dises-fut.html#comment-397605</link>
		<dc:creator>frelkins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Aug 2008 19:43:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2008/08/cowen-disses-futarchy.html#comment-397605</guid>
		<description>In the contest over what constitutes good government, I&#039;ll take James Madison over Tyler Cowen any day.

The legislature&#039;s need for private as well as public information was well understood by him, and reflected in the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.foundingfathers.info/federalistpapers/fed53.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Federalist Papers&lt;/a&gt;:

&quot;No man can be a competent legislator who does not add to an upright intention and a sound judgment a certain degree of knowledge of the subjects on which he is to legislate. A part of this knowledge may be acquired &lt;strong&gt;by means of information which lie within the compass of men in private&lt;/strong&gt; as well as public stations.&quot;

Prediction markets are nothing more than such a &lt;em&gt;means of information&lt;/em&gt; lying &lt;em&gt;within the compass of men in private....stations&lt;/em&gt;. As such it appears exactly the kind of resource of which the Founding Fathers would have approved.

In their day information aggregation was primarily performed by the coffeehouse broadsheet, and in ours there doesn&#039;t seem a sound argument not to consider adding well-designed markets into the mix.


</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In the contest over what constitutes good government, I&#8217;ll take James Madison over Tyler Cowen any day.</p>
<p>The legislature&#8217;s need for private as well as public information was well understood by him, and reflected in the <a href="http://www.foundingfathers.info/federalistpapers/fed53.htm" rel="nofollow">Federalist Papers</a>:</p>
<p>&#8220;No man can be a competent legislator who does not add to an upright intention and a sound judgment a certain degree of knowledge of the subjects on which he is to legislate. A part of this knowledge may be acquired <strong>by means of information which lie within the compass of men in private</strong> as well as public stations.&#8221;</p>
<p>Prediction markets are nothing more than such a <em>means of information</em> lying <em>within the compass of men in private&#8230;.stations</em>. As such it appears exactly the kind of resource of which the Founding Fathers would have approved.</p>
<p>In their day information aggregation was primarily performed by the coffeehouse broadsheet, and in ours there doesn&#8217;t seem a sound argument not to consider adding well-designed markets into the mix.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Schreiber</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2008/08/cowen-dises-fut.html#comment-397604</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Schreiber</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Aug 2008 17:55:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2008/08/cowen-disses-futarchy.html#comment-397604</guid>
		<description>The article quotes Cowen as saying &quot;the record of prediction markets&quot; not &quot;representatives&quot;.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The article quotes Cowen as saying &#8220;the record of prediction markets&#8221; not &#8220;representatives&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Jef Allbright</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2008/08/cowen-dises-fut.html#comment-397603</link>
		<dc:creator>Jef Allbright</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Aug 2008 16:16:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2008/08/cowen-disses-futarchy.html#comment-397603</guid>
		<description>Social decision-making seen as increasingly effective has two fundamental aspects:  (1) powers of prediction effective over increasing scope (2) a model of values effective (coherent) over increasing context.  Prediction markets as currently described are explicit about aspect #1 while relegating #2 (superficially repugnant to narrow libertarian thinking) to the natural tendency of evolutionary processes to preserve and promote increasing synergies.  We would do well, as agents operating necessarily within the system, to explicitly promote *both* aspects.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Social decision-making seen as increasingly effective has two fundamental aspects:  (1) powers of prediction effective over increasing scope (2) a model of values effective (coherent) over increasing context.  Prediction markets as currently described are explicit about aspect #1 while relegating #2 (superficially repugnant to narrow libertarian thinking) to the natural tendency of evolutionary processes to preserve and promote increasing synergies.  We would do well, as agents operating necessarily within the system, to explicitly promote *both* aspects.</p>
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