Comments on: Loud Bumpers

By: David J. Balan

David J. Balan — Thu, 26 Jun 2008 03:02:21 +0000

It seems like the “dominance” thing and the “extension of personal space” thing might be distinct from each other.

By: Abigail

Abigail — Fri, 20 Jun 2008 14:57:27 +0000

Do you believe that any pair or group of people might consider themselves to be equal?

What of a team, where each defers to each other in that other’s sphere of expertise?

Might people cease to seek to establish dominance where they do not find any payoff?

By: Marc Geddes

Marc Geddes — Wed, 18 Jun 2008 04:41:46 +0000

It’s virtually *all* social signalling Robin, the whole human shebang. The reasoning ability of most of the population is virtually non-existant any way; so-called ‘arguments’ are really just being used as a social device most of the time – that is to say – it appears to me that people are not usually interested in the content of logical arguments – only in the social effects and as a way of establishing in/out groups, relative staus etc.

Depressing isn’t it? Why do you think virtually no one is working on advanced transhumanist topics? Answer: Because there’s no social reward. (of course, now that transhumanist ideas are getting more popular, you have some people professing a ‘sudden’ interest as funding and job openings become avaliable.) My horrific realization is that most people’s time is taken up with social signalling. Human nature really is even more sordid than the worst fears of my youth I’m afraid.

In the words of ‘Battle Star Galactica’ :

‘Somebody get me off this fracking planet!’

By: kiki

kiki — Wed, 18 Jun 2008 00:58:36 +0000

Robin
I’d like to agree with you, but I feel compelled to disagree. Just kidding, great post!…

Academic administrators, Government bureaucrats and company executives often talk of needing to get “buy in” and “ownership”. Why do rational people need to “buy in” or “own” things…..isn’t the data enough?

By: E. S.

E. S. — Tue, 17 Jun 2008 21:50:50 +0000

I don’t think I buy the signalling explanation — when I see bumper stickers I certainly don’t associate it with high status. To me the simplest explanation would seem to be that both bumper stickers and road rage are correlated with high levels of narcissism.

By: Robin Hanson

Robin Hanson — Tue, 17 Jun 2008 21:25:07 +0000

Unfortunately status and dominance signals are complex, multi-dimensional, and context dependent. That makes them harder to study, but no less real.

By: Alan Gunn

Alan Gunn — Tue, 17 Jun 2008 21:16:32 +0000

Isn’t there a recent study showing that the results of most studies are wrong?

By: Silas

Silas — Tue, 17 Jun 2008 20:47:48 +0000

Another way to make a car loud is to, er, be … loud. Like, play loud bass music. Is there any connection between this and signaling? i.e., would that credibly signal dominance to females. If so … well, given that I hate such cars, that just ads insult to injury.

About the “why no stickers on Lexuses?”, it could just be a case of the three-tiered dominance system:

-people that are so high they don’t need to signal
-people that are lower and signal what they do have
-people at the bottom with nothing to signal

But then, if you don’t need to signal, what’s the point of a Lexus…

By: Schizo

Schizo — Tue, 17 Jun 2008 20:26:22 +0000

M Wms,

People of higher status are often unwilling to put stickers on their cars because it makes them seem trashy and taints the immaculate surface of their cars.

By: Doug S.

Doug S. — Tue, 17 Jun 2008 20:20:13 +0000

When you work for Dr. Evil and he tells a joke, you laugh, even if the joke is bad, because you don’t want to make him angry. It’s not so much “submission” as “sucking up”, but they are similar.