Comments on: Lying to Kids

By: Overcoming Bias : Beware Identity

Overcoming Bias : Beware Identity — Fri, 11 Sep 2009 18:14:28 +0000

[...] from Paul Graham’s fantastic essay on lying to kids: Some parents feel a strong adherence to an ethnic or religious group and want their kids to feel [...]

By: infopractical

infopractical — Sun, 25 May 2008 04:29:23 +0000

I tend to fall on the side of transparency.

I don’t believe at all that the smartest people I know are the ones who are aloof about evil. Those might be the academics, but in that regard they’re ignorant about what really makes the work tick. In fact, they often throw their weight behind evil people because they don’t know any better.

I do however think there is a prisoner’s dilemma involved. When you cross the line and tell the truth, people turn on you. I’ve been there and it can get vicious.

By: Wendy Collings

Wendy Collings — Sat, 24 May 2008 22:30:56 +0000

I remember believing in Santa Claus, but don’t recall how or when I discovered the truth. Nor was there any “moment of truth” about the Christian beliefs I was brought up with; it all just leached out of me like dye that was never colour-fast.

Reading people’s different reactions to the Santa myth, I get the impression that some people have something like a digital on-off switch for belief-disbelief, while others have more of an analogue doubt dial.

P.S. I’m not sure the Jesus myth qualifies as a lie, since the people passing it on fully believe in it themselves. Untruth + deliberate deceit = lie.

By: Dynamically Linked

Dynamically Linked — Sat, 24 May 2008 17:51:08 +0000

How did the Santa Claus deception get started, does anyone know? Paul Graham’s article explains the rationales behind many of the lies we tell children, but not this one. The amount of of coordination involved in creating such a conspiracy would be extremely costly if someone were to attempt it today. So how did Santa Claus get started in the first place? And why?

By: Valter

Valter — Sat, 24 May 2008 09:07:14 +0000

Caledonian writes:

“Lesson taught [from Santa Claus gift-giving]: fall for the lies that society wants you to and you will be rewarded.

I suppose that is a valuable lesson for the sorts of societies people like you create. But it’s not a society I wish to live in.”

I’ll let the insult pass, since you were so hurt by the SC lie and I am sorry to have touched a topic that is so sensitive for you. But your rage seems to be obfuscating your judgment.

The gift-giving is not a way to reward believing a lie – in fact it continues even after the lie is discovered. Or did your parents stop giving you gifts after you learned the truth about SC? That, I agree, would be counterproductive – and downright mean.

The gift-giving is a way to sugar the pill of the SC prank, which (as you felt) may be taste bitter. I think the prank is useful as a life-lesson (don’t believe everything you hear, not matter how many times you hear it) and it probably has to hurt a bit to sink in. But I insist: it is a gentle prank and should be taken with a sense of humor.

(I wonder at what age you learned the SC truth; if the prank continues for too long – say, until age 10 – then it is not longer a gentle one. I guess that if the kid still buys the story after age 7 or 8 parents should worry a bit and start giving better hints.)

By: ColinDC

ColinDC — Sat, 24 May 2008 05:10:29 +0000

I don’t even remember ever believing in Santa Claus, but one thing that did have a huge impact on me was death.
My parents never outright deceived me about death but it was never really talked about with them, school, books, or television. When talked about it was usually religious (heaven/far far away/ghosts/etc.). The emotional impact never really hit me until high-school where, one day, it hit hard and fast.

Another (slightly off-topic) one is lies in school. I can’t remember any from elementary so here’s a couple from university:
The Coriolis effect determines drainage direction.
George Washington was not the first president of the united states. (psych 101, not kidding, we were tested on it).
I don’t think most of the class took the second one to heart but the first one is a lot more subtle and widespread; this goes to show that just because we’re adults also doesn’t mean we’re now safe from their lies.
(Insert reference to “One Lie” post here)

BTW: Hi everyone! hope this wasn’t too terrible for a first post…

By: michael vassar

michael vassar — Sat, 24 May 2008 04:58:32 +0000

I was raised with and never starkly broke from a vague “god is whatever you want it to be” non-theology which shaded cleanly into continuing efforts to really understand first cause, so for me the surprises went in the other direction. At about age ten I was frankly disbelieving, and was eventually shocked and horrified, when a six year old convinced me that yes some kids actually believed in Santa. Then at age 14 I had similar experiences with Jesus and people who were of my socio-economic status (I had known vaguely about fundamentalists and TV preachers as something primitive and far away).

I had noticed that most adults were foolish in many ways previously, but Jesus etc seemed to just be another level of insanity and I wasted MANY hours arguing about it over the next four or five years.

By: Lord

Lord — Sat, 24 May 2008 04:37:37 +0000

And when did you come to realize these are not lies at all, only metaphors of truth? Or did you not?

By: Will Woods

Will Woods — Sat, 24 May 2008 03:38:26 +0000

uh…

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/1632021.stm

http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/01/15/america/wine.php

By: frelkins

frelkins — Sat, 24 May 2008 03:08:33 +0000

“but they really do taste completely different”

Peeps, I don’t know about some wines by pure price, but certainly you can tell a Sauternes from a Cab Sauv tasting blind, yes certainly. I personally find coffees easier – but that may because I have trained a lot on coffee with my Lenoir. It’s important to recognize that if you are a taster, you can train yourself. You’d be surprised at how much these senses can be taught!