Comments on: Expelled Beats Sicko http://www.overcomingbias.com/2008/05/expelled-beats-sicko.html Overcoming Bias is economist Robin Hanson’s blog, on honesty, signaling, disagreement, forecasting, and the far future. Sun, 12 Feb 2012 01:09:57 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.3 By: Albert http://www.overcomingbias.com/2008/05/expelled-beats-sicko.html#comment-448322 Albert Sun, 30 May 2010 04:25:45 +0000 http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2008/05/expelled-beats-sicko.html#comment-448322 Ok there may be good arguments possible about Universal Healthcare but would you be long or short in a market on it? Your disclaimer failed to state your personal position on it. Ok there may be good arguments possible about Universal Healthcare but would you be long or short in a market on it? Your disclaimer failed to state your personal position on it.

]]> By: Liza http://www.overcomingbias.com/2008/05/expelled-beats-sicko.html#comment-427649 Liza Thu, 11 Dec 2008 01:36:00 +0000 http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2008/05/expelled-beats-sicko.html#comment-427649 <p>The point is not to say that ID is true, or that evolution is false, all they want is for it to be debatable. <br> Not have evolution taught in schools as 100% FACT when it is still nothing more than a THEORY.<br> And there's not a lot of legitimate evidence for evolution either. Everything they decide is "proof" gets proven as something else later. Anyone remember Lucy? Or how about great grandpa Coelacanth?<br> The bottom line is evolutionist will believe in absolutely anything so long as they don't have to believe in "god".<br> Fine, believe what you want, but stop teaching our kids that the world is billions of years old and their relatives consist of monkeys and fish.</p> The point is not to say that ID is true, or that evolution is false, all they want is for it to be debatable.
Not have evolution taught in schools as 100% FACT when it is still nothing more than a THEORY.
And there’s not a lot of legitimate evidence for evolution either. Everything they decide is “proof” gets proven as something else later. Anyone remember Lucy? Or how about great grandpa Coelacanth?
The bottom line is evolutionist will believe in absolutely anything so long as they don’t have to believe in “god”.
Fine, believe what you want, but stop teaching our kids that the world is billions of years old and their relatives consist of monkeys and fish.

]]> By: EconLog http://www.overcomingbias.com/2008/05/expelled-beats-sicko.html#comment-404566 EconLog Tue, 27 May 2008 14:42:53 +0000 http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2008/05/expelled-beats-sicko.html#comment-404566 <strong>Quality Health Care for Peanuts: How Singapore Does It</strong> If Michael Moore really wanted to challenge our preconceptions about health care, Sicko would have been a documentary about health... Quality Health Care for Peanuts: How Singapore Does It

If Michael Moore really wanted to challenge our preconceptions about health care, Sicko would have been a documentary about health…

]]> By: Daniel Reeves http://www.overcomingbias.com/2008/05/expelled-beats-sicko.html#comment-427648 Daniel Reeves Tue, 13 May 2008 17:10:00 +0000 http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2008/05/expelled-beats-sicko.html#comment-427648 <p>By the arguments made for both sides (U.S. needs universal health care, I.D. supporters are basically shunned and there's still room to debate I.D.), Expelled is marginally better than SiCKO once you factor in how misleading SiCKO. (Cuba? Decent health care? No preferential treatment? Really?!) And that's especially disappointing considering how many more valid arguments he could have used. However, Moore is an amusing and admittedly talented documentary maker. Expelled is just poorly made and isn't nearly as entertaining. But I didn't personally pay to see Expelled, so that only cost me time.</p> <p>Is Hanson biased?</p> By the arguments made for both sides (U.S. needs universal health care, I.D. supporters are basically shunned and there’s still room to debate I.D.), Expelled is marginally better than SiCKO once you factor in how misleading SiCKO. (Cuba? Decent health care? No preferential treatment? Really?!) And that’s especially disappointing considering how many more valid arguments he could have used. However, Moore is an amusing and admittedly talented documentary maker. Expelled is just poorly made and isn’t nearly as entertaining. But I didn’t personally pay to see Expelled, so that only cost me time.

Is Hanson biased?

]]> By: mnuez http://www.overcomingbias.com/2008/05/expelled-beats-sicko.html#comment-427647 mnuez Mon, 12 May 2008 07:57:00 +0000 http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2008/05/expelled-beats-sicko.html#comment-427647 <p>Uh, didn't see 'Expelled' but love how Robin can't let go of 'Sicko'. Pretty funny stuff. I gotta say I'm impressed with the quality of the comments though. Last I visited these parts people were afraid to take Robin on (possibly on account of his Overcoming Bias through censorship of critical comments) and most of what we heard in response to his "the rich are always right!" cries was the "whoosh!" of his bowing lemming fans. It's nice to see that the quality of commentors has improved... or is it just a temporary malfunction in Overcoming Bias's CensorBot 3000?</p> <p>mnuez<br></p> Uh, didn’t see ‘Expelled’ but love how Robin can’t let go of ‘Sicko’. Pretty funny stuff. I gotta say I’m impressed with the quality of the comments though. Last I visited these parts people were afraid to take Robin on (possibly on account of his Overcoming Bias through censorship of critical comments) and most of what we heard in response to his “the rich are always right!” cries was the “whoosh!” of his bowing lemming fans. It’s nice to see that the quality of commentors has improved… or is it just a temporary malfunction in Overcoming Bias’s CensorBot 3000?

mnuez

]]> By: burger flipper http://www.overcomingbias.com/2008/05/expelled-beats-sicko.html#comment-427646 burger flipper Mon, 12 May 2008 03:03:00 +0000 http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2008/05/expelled-beats-sicko.html#comment-427646 <p>"And they get opponent Richard Dawkins to admit a 1% chance of God"</p> <p>Actually walked into this after a double feature today. Probably missed the first half hour, but stayed for the remainder. The film is pretty transparent, as was Sicko. Evidence consists of such things as having two seperate ID experts say that when evolutionary biologists are drinking they admit to problems with evolution.</p> <p>And while Dawkins does not come off well, Hanson isn't being fully forthcoming in the sentence quoted above. Stein asks Dawkins to rate the percentage chance that there is no god. Dawkins says he cannot put a number on it. Stein presses again and Dawkins (very hesitantly) offers 99, but also asserts two more times that it is not something he can really put a number on. Stein then says why not 97 and then it devolves into a question of whether it is a long way from 50/50.</p> <p>It was an interesting experience. I'm an Okie and the theater was over 1/3 full. The audience was very receptive (similar to that for Sicko), but I really did enjoy Redbelt much more.</p> “And they get opponent Richard Dawkins to admit a 1% chance of God”

Actually walked into this after a double feature today. Probably missed the first half hour, but stayed for the remainder. The film is pretty transparent, as was Sicko. Evidence consists of such things as having two seperate ID experts say that when evolutionary biologists are drinking they admit to problems with evolution.

And while Dawkins does not come off well, Hanson isn’t being fully forthcoming in the sentence quoted above. Stein asks Dawkins to rate the percentage chance that there is no god. Dawkins says he cannot put a number on it. Stein presses again and Dawkins (very hesitantly) offers 99, but also asserts two more times that it is not something he can really put a number on. Stein then says why not 97 and then it devolves into a question of whether it is a long way from 50/50.

It was an interesting experience. I’m an Okie and the theater was over 1/3 full. The audience was very receptive (similar to that for Sicko), but I really did enjoy Redbelt much more.

]]> By: Tim Tyler http://www.overcomingbias.com/2008/05/expelled-beats-sicko.html#comment-427645 Tim Tyler Sun, 11 May 2008 20:24:00 +0000 http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2008/05/expelled-beats-sicko.html#comment-427645 <p>IMO, about the best thing to come out of the "Expelled" fiasco was:</p> <p>"Richard Dawkins - Beware the Believers"</p> <p>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaGgpGLxLQw<br></p> IMO, about the best thing to come out of the “Expelled” fiasco was:

“Richard Dawkins – Beware the Believers”

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaGgpGLxLQw

]]> By: NP http://www.overcomingbias.com/2008/05/expelled-beats-sicko.html#comment-427644 NP Sun, 11 May 2008 12:45:00 +0000 http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2008/05/expelled-beats-sicko.html#comment-427644 <p>If intelligent design wants to make a case for itself, the movement needs to start producing scientific data and testable hypotheses, not B-movies and popular books that pander to credulous creationists.</p> If intelligent design wants to make a case for itself, the movement needs to start producing scientific data and testable hypotheses, not B-movies and popular books that pander to credulous creationists.

]]> By: Robin Hanson http://www.overcomingbias.com/2008/05/expelled-beats-sicko.html#comment-427643 Robin Hanson Sat, 10 May 2008 20:51:00 +0000 http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2008/05/expelled-beats-sicko.html#comment-427643 <p>Hallq, nice to finally see a comment from someone who saw at least one of the movies compared. Sure interviewee clips could have been longer, but if you'd seen Sicko, you'd admit Excelled was far fairer. I saw nothing wrong with insisting on a number - we do that to lunch guests all the time. On freedom, sure there are official policies, but they are symbolic and largely unenforced. </p> Hallq, nice to finally see a comment from someone who saw at least one of the movies compared. Sure interviewee clips could have been longer, but if you’d seen Sicko, you’d admit Excelled was far fairer. I saw nothing wrong with insisting on a number – we do that to lunch guests all the time. On freedom, sure there are official policies, but they are symbolic and largely unenforced.

]]> By: The Uncredible Hallq http://www.overcomingbias.com/2008/05/expelled-beats-sicko.html#comment-427642 The Uncredible Hallq Sat, 10 May 2008 20:40:00 +0000 http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2008/05/expelled-beats-sicko.html#comment-427642 <p>>In Expelled, experts on many sides speak at length in their own words. </p> <p>When did this happen? I was put off by how quickly they shifted between interviewees, the only substantial argument for intelligent design I could see was based on the misrepresentation that everyone agrees life would have had to begin with a single cell, when most scientists are thinking simple self-replicators. </p> <p>>And they get opponent Richard Dawkins to admit a 1% chance of God, and a higher chance Earth life may have been designed by distant ancient higher powers.</p> <p>Maybe this doesn't look good if you really think about it, but for people who aren't probability & statistics nerds "%1 chance" just means "really small chance." Dawkins himself said it was hard to put a number on, and Stein made himself look like a fool insisting on getting a number after Dawkins said that.</p> <p>>For my taste, the movie overdid threats to a mythical "academic freedom" that supposedly made the US great, but probably never existed. </p> <p>What do you mean by "mythical academic freedom"? It's undeniably true that U.S. universities have policies that give academics considerable autonomy in some ways, emphasis on some. Their star case for the supposed assault on academic freedom was a guy who's publishing record dried up when he got into pseudoscience. It looked bad if you don't know anything about the issue, but you could stand to be a little more skeptical here.</p> <p>>It also overdid how understanding Darwin leads people to reject God, and emboldened Nazis to brutality. These claims are not relevant to the truth of intelligent design, but they are admittedly true and relevant to most viewers' desire to avoid beliefs with such consequences. </p> <p>Am I the only one here who's read Plato? He was talking totalitarianism and eugenics two millennia before Darwin. Darwin was, at best, occasionally referenced in Nazi propaganda as in the modern world science is always worth shoehorning into propaganda if you can, but it doesn't mean anything.</p> >In Expelled, experts on many sides speak at length in their own words.

When did this happen? I was put off by how quickly they shifted between interviewees, the only substantial argument for intelligent design I could see was based on the misrepresentation that everyone agrees life would have had to begin with a single cell, when most scientists are thinking simple self-replicators.

>And they get opponent Richard Dawkins to admit a 1% chance of God, and a higher chance Earth life may have been designed by distant ancient higher powers.

Maybe this doesn’t look good if you really think about it, but for people who aren’t probability & statistics nerds “%1 chance” just means “really small chance.” Dawkins himself said it was hard to put a number on, and Stein made himself look like a fool insisting on getting a number after Dawkins said that.

>For my taste, the movie overdid threats to a mythical “academic freedom” that supposedly made the US great, but probably never existed.

What do you mean by “mythical academic freedom”? It’s undeniably true that U.S. universities have policies that give academics considerable autonomy in some ways, emphasis on some. Their star case for the supposed assault on academic freedom was a guy who’s publishing record dried up when he got into pseudoscience. It looked bad if you don’t know anything about the issue, but you could stand to be a little more skeptical here.

>It also overdid how understanding Darwin leads people to reject God, and emboldened Nazis to brutality. These claims are not relevant to the truth of intelligent design, but they are admittedly true and relevant to most viewers’ desire to avoid beliefs with such consequences.

Am I the only one here who’s read Plato? He was talking totalitarianism and eugenics two millennia before Darwin. Darwin was, at best, occasionally referenced in Nazi propaganda as in the modern world science is always worth shoehorning into propaganda if you can, but it doesn’t mean anything.

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