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	<title>Comments on: Reject Random Beliefs</title>
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	<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2008/03/reject-random-b.html</link>
	<description>Overcoming Bias is economist Robin Hanson’s blog, on honesty, signaling, disagreement, forecasting, and the far future.</description>
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		<title>By: beliefs - StartTags.com</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2008/03/reject-random-b.html#comment-441149</link>
		<dc:creator>beliefs - StartTags.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Jan 2010 20:33:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2008/03/reject-random-beliefs.html#comment-441149</guid>
		<description>[...] models of belief learning, and prior beliefs implied by such models are both stronger and more ...Overcoming Bias : Reject Random BeliefsIn general, if you want to believe the truth, then you should just accept the average belief on any [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] models of belief learning, and prior beliefs implied by such models are both stronger and more &#8230;Overcoming Bias : Reject Random BeliefsIn general, if you want to believe the truth, then you should just accept the average belief on any [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Against Rothbard and Keynes, for Marx &#171; Entitled to an Opinion</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2008/03/reject-random-b.html#comment-429571</link>
		<dc:creator>Against Rothbard and Keynes, for Marx &#171; Entitled to an Opinion</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 00:06:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2008/03/reject-random-beliefs.html#comment-429571</guid>
		<description>[...] want what they want? Largely it&#8217;s the result of a long process of evolutionary selection. Ideology and religiosity are highly heritable, but few people will be willing to admit that and thereby make [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] want what they want? Largely it&#8217;s the result of a long process of evolutionary selection. Ideology and religiosity are highly heritable, but few people will be willing to admit that and thereby make [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Overcoming Bias : Beliefs Require Reasons, or: Is the Pope Catholic? Should he be?</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2008/03/reject-random-b.html#comment-428992</link>
		<dc:creator>Overcoming Bias : Beliefs Require Reasons, or: Is the Pope Catholic? Should he be?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Jun 2009 13:47:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2008/03/reject-random-beliefs.html#comment-428992</guid>
		<description>[...] 2:&#160; Beliefs should be held for reasons.&#160; Many of our beliefs are not held for reasons, in the sense that I&#8217;m using the term [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] 2:&nbsp; Beliefs should be held for reasons.&nbsp; Many of our beliefs are not held for reasons, in the sense that I&#8217;m using the term [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Hollerith</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2008/03/reject-random-b.html#comment-407470</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Hollerith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Mar 2008 14:30:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2008/03/reject-random-beliefs.html#comment-407470</guid>
		<description>If Bob and Charlie share the same causal model of some aspect of reality except that the model contains parameters (integers or real number) and Bob and Charlie differ in their estimates of those parameters then yes, I am willing to believe that the average of their estimates is more accurate than either of their estimates.

Since there exists a mathematical theory of causal models (in Bayesian networks and structural equation models) it is possible that you are refering to mathematics which describes a way to average causal models having what one might call &quot;qualitative&quot; differences (different number of equations in the two models, different number of terms in two equations, different number or identity of factors in two terms) rather than merely &quot;quantitative&quot; differences (different integral or real coefficients in the equations).  If so, I would love to learn more about this crunchy mathematics.

But if the math you refer to assumes that Bob and Charlie have the same &quot;qualitative&quot; causal model and differ only in their beliefs about the correct values of the parameters of that model, do you really believe that the math is relevant to human beliefs about most things, particularly about aspect of reality as complex as politics?
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If Bob and Charlie share the same causal model of some aspect of reality except that the model contains parameters (integers or real number) and Bob and Charlie differ in their estimates of those parameters then yes, I am willing to believe that the average of their estimates is more accurate than either of their estimates.</p>
<p>Since there exists a mathematical theory of causal models (in Bayesian networks and structural equation models) it is possible that you are refering to mathematics which describes a way to average causal models having what one might call &#8220;qualitative&#8221; differences (different number of equations in the two models, different number of terms in two equations, different number or identity of factors in two terms) rather than merely &#8220;quantitative&#8221; differences (different integral or real coefficients in the equations).  If so, I would love to learn more about this crunchy mathematics.</p>
<p>But if the math you refer to assumes that Bob and Charlie have the same &#8220;qualitative&#8221; causal model and differ only in their beliefs about the correct values of the parameters of that model, do you really believe that the math is relevant to human beliefs about most things, particularly about aspect of reality as complex as politics?</p>
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		<title>By: Robin Hanson</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2008/03/reject-random-b.html#comment-407469</link>
		<dc:creator>Robin Hanson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Mar 2008 12:55:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2008/03/reject-random-beliefs.html#comment-407469</guid>
		<description>Richard, there is math that supports the claim that taking the average is more accurate than adding a deviation which is not better informed than the average deviation.

George and alex, read ZM.

Grant, sometimes you can&#039;t avoid having an opinion if you must take related action, but otherwise sure, avoid uninformed opinions.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Richard, there is math that supports the claim that taking the average is more accurate than adding a deviation which is not better informed than the average deviation.</p>
<p>George and alex, read ZM.</p>
<p>Grant, sometimes you can&#8217;t avoid having an opinion if you must take related action, but otherwise sure, avoid uninformed opinions.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Hollerith</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2008/03/reject-random-b.html#comment-407468</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Hollerith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Mar 2008 03:15:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2008/03/reject-random-beliefs.html#comment-407468</guid>
		<description>I agree that I do not percieve reality well enough to reach my goals and that the referenced finding that opinions are heritable is evidence of that.  I also agree that &lt;i&gt;having an intuitive feeling that your belief causes are better is not a &quot;good reason&quot;&lt;/i&gt; to believe my beliefs are truer than anyone else&#039;s.  Consequently, since I want to perceive reality as well as possible, I have to start &lt;b&gt;doing something&lt;/b&gt; different.

But then, Robin, you go on to make a specific recommendation, namely, &lt;i&gt;just accept the average belief on any topic&lt;/i&gt; unless certain conditions apply.   Do you not agree that nothing you have said in the OP is evidence for the specific recommendation except for the very weak link that the specific recommendation is &lt;b&gt;doing something&lt;/b&gt;?  Do you not agree that the following is an invalid argument: there is no reason to believe that your beliefs are better than average, therefore you should adjust your beliefs towards the average?

Naturally I have been exposed to thousands of voices who advocate the specific recommendation or beliefs with a high conditional dependency on it, such as the belief that the more people involved in a decision, the better the decision will turn out.  But how would you persuade someone to go with those thousands of voices who does not already believe that counting heads is a good method of getting closer to the truth when the alternative of thinking long and hard about the question is available?
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree that I do not percieve reality well enough to reach my goals and that the referenced finding that opinions are heritable is evidence of that.  I also agree that <i>having an intuitive feeling that your belief causes are better is not a &#8220;good reason&#8221;</i> to believe my beliefs are truer than anyone else&#8217;s.  Consequently, since I want to perceive reality as well as possible, I have to start <b>doing something</b> different.</p>
<p>But then, Robin, you go on to make a specific recommendation, namely, <i>just accept the average belief on any topic</i> unless certain conditions apply.   Do you not agree that nothing you have said in the OP is evidence for the specific recommendation except for the very weak link that the specific recommendation is <b>doing something</b>?  Do you not agree that the following is an invalid argument: there is no reason to believe that your beliefs are better than average, therefore you should adjust your beliefs towards the average?</p>
<p>Naturally I have been exposed to thousands of voices who advocate the specific recommendation or beliefs with a high conditional dependency on it, such as the belief that the more people involved in a decision, the better the decision will turn out.  But how would you persuade someone to go with those thousands of voices who does not already believe that counting heads is a good method of getting closer to the truth when the alternative of thinking long and hard about the question is available?</p>
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		<title>By: Z. M. Davis</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2008/03/reject-random-b.html#comment-407467</link>
		<dc:creator>Z. M. Davis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Mar 2008 17:03:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2008/03/reject-random-beliefs.html#comment-407467</guid>
		<description>George, I think &lt;i&gt;variance&lt;/i&gt; in this context is the statistical term referring to the mean of the squares of the differences between the data you&#039;re investigating and the mean of the data.

So, if I am not mistaken, we calculate the difference between your opinion and the average opinion, square it, subtract the appropriate percentage from this corresponding to the heritability, then take the square root, then add that to the average opinion. In this case, we have:

90 - 50 = 40
40^2 = 1600
1600 - (.4)1600 = 960
sqrt(960) ~ 30.98
50 + 30.98 = 80.98 ~ 81, which is QED
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>George, I think <i>variance</i> in this context is the statistical term referring to the mean of the squares of the differences between the data you&#8217;re investigating and the mean of the data.</p>
<p>So, if I am not mistaken, we calculate the difference between your opinion and the average opinion, square it, subtract the appropriate percentage from this corresponding to the heritability, then take the square root, then add that to the average opinion. In this case, we have:</p>
<p>90 &#8211; 50 = 40<br />
40^2 = 1600<br />
1600 &#8211; (.4)1600 = 960<br />
sqrt(960) ~ 30.98<br />
50 + 30.98 = 80.98 ~ 81, which is QED</p>
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		<title>By: brian</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2008/03/reject-random-b.html#comment-407466</link>
		<dc:creator>brian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Mar 2008 15:57:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2008/03/reject-random-beliefs.html#comment-407466</guid>
		<description>First.  There&#039;s a quote from James Fenimore Cooper:  &quot;the tendency of democracies is, in all things, to mediocrity&quot;.  Something I&#039;ve come to believe as well.

Second.  Define &#039;Truth&#039;.  I dare you.

Third.  The question we should be asking is who is providing information to the &#039;majority&#039; of the cows/sheep with whom we should be aligning ourselves?  How did they come by their information/beliefs?  I&#039;m way out of my area of expertise, but it seems to me like most are indoctrinated by their government (including public schooling), their church/religious organization and the media.  So maybe the real question is; To what extent has that group actually *thought* about what they believe and why?
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First.  There&#8217;s a quote from James Fenimore Cooper:  &#8220;the tendency of democracies is, in all things, to mediocrity&#8221;.  Something I&#8217;ve come to believe as well.</p>
<p>Second.  Define &#8216;Truth&#8217;.  I dare you.</p>
<p>Third.  The question we should be asking is who is providing information to the &#8216;majority&#8217; of the cows/sheep with whom we should be aligning ourselves?  How did they come by their information/beliefs?  I&#8217;m way out of my area of expertise, but it seems to me like most are indoctrinated by their government (including public schooling), their church/religious organization and the media.  So maybe the real question is; To what extent has that group actually *thought* about what they believe and why?</p>
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		<title>By: alex</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2008/03/reject-random-b.html#comment-407465</link>
		<dc:creator>alex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Mar 2008 09:40:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2008/03/reject-random-beliefs.html#comment-407465</guid>
		<description>This is starting to make more sense now. But how can the mathematical method you added in the original post be useful? Surely if you followed this it would disallow positions of (at least) 0 and 100? Personally I think that&#039;s a rather good thing, but is it mathematically sound?
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is starting to make more sense now. But how can the mathematical method you added in the original post be useful? Surely if you followed this it would disallow positions of (at least) 0 and 100? Personally I think that&#8217;s a rather good thing, but is it mathematically sound?</p>
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		<title>By: George S.</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2008/03/reject-random-b.html#comment-407464</link>
		<dc:creator>George S.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Mar 2008 08:55:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2008/03/reject-random-beliefs.html#comment-407464</guid>
		<description>Still I don&#039;t get how you got to 81, from 90...

Facts:
----------
a) Let&#039;s say that on a scale of 0 to 100, your position on property taxes is 90

b) The average position on this issue is 50

c) the table says that 41% of belief variation on this topic is genetic


So...
-----------
then to eliminate this genetic component of your beliefs, you might reduce your position from 90 to 81, since this takes away 40% of the variance of your belief relative to the average.


????

How is this happening ? What are the actual equations ?

let&#039;s say I have 90... while the average is 50... how come this 41% from &quot;variance of your belief relative to the average&quot; gives a 9, so that I get 81 as a result ?

Can you please elaborate on the actual equations that give this value ?

Thanks in advance.

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Still I don&#8217;t get how you got to 81, from 90&#8230;</p>
<p>Facts:<br />
&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;-<br />
a) Let&#8217;s say that on a scale of 0 to 100, your position on property taxes is 90</p>
<p>b) The average position on this issue is 50</p>
<p>c) the table says that 41% of belief variation on this topic is genetic</p>
<p>So&#8230;<br />
&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8211;<br />
then to eliminate this genetic component of your beliefs, you might reduce your position from 90 to 81, since this takes away 40% of the variance of your belief relative to the average.</p>
<p>????</p>
<p>How is this happening ? What are the actual equations ?</p>
<p>let&#8217;s say I have 90&#8230; while the average is 50&#8230; how come this 41% from &#8220;variance of your belief relative to the average&#8221; gives a 9, so that I get 81 as a result ?</p>
<p>Can you please elaborate on the actual equations that give this value ?</p>
<p>Thanks in advance.</p>
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