Comments on: Bias And Power http://www.overcomingbias.com/2008/03/biased-for-and.html Overcoming Bias is economist Robin Hanson’s blog, on honesty, signaling, disagreement, forecasting, and the far future. Fri, 19 Mar 2010 16:29:03 -0400 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.5 hourly 1 By: Mike K http://www.overcomingbias.com/2008/03/biased-for-and.html#comment-407350 Mike K Mon, 10 Mar 2008 21:54:01 +0000 http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2008/03/bias-and-power.html#comment-407350 Is a Bias Toward Power different from obedience to power (as famously shown by Milgram)? That is, I'm interested in the potential causality chain here. Is the bias to trusting/respecting/accepting things coming from a powerful figure different from the push to obey? Or do we obey only inasmuch as we are being deferential? Is a Bias Toward Power different from obedience to power (as famously shown by Milgram)?

That is, I’m interested in the potential causality chain here. Is the bias to trusting/respecting/accepting things coming from a powerful figure different from the push to obey? Or do we obey only inasmuch as we are being deferential?

]]> By: dls http://www.overcomingbias.com/2008/03/biased-for-and.html#comment-407349 dls Mon, 10 Mar 2008 19:03:03 +0000 http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2008/03/bias-and-power.html#comment-407349 I've always felt a strong pull of the authority of Socrates on this score--when people are wise in one thing, they think they are wise in many. Thanks for confirming it. ;) I’ve always felt a strong pull of the authority of Socrates on this score–when people are wise in one thing, they think they are wise in many. Thanks for confirming it. ;)

]]> By: Helen DeWitt http://www.overcomingbias.com/2008/03/biased-for-and.html#comment-407348 Helen DeWitt Sun, 09 Mar 2008 12:41:29 +0000 http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2008/03/bias-and-power.html#comment-407348 The book written when a writer is unknown takes as long as the writer thinks it needs; if the writer thinks it needs uninterrupted concentration, he or she can save up money and quit a job and do nothing but write. This can hardly be said to apply to the work of published authors, whose new books are often contractually tied to a deadline, and who generally work on the new book amid constant interruptions from those seeing earlier work into print. Faulkner is said to have written As I Lay Dying in six weeks while working as a security guard; it's easy to imagine writing with that kind of intensity under those circumstances, less easy to imagine someone writing such a book while simultaneously defending the MS of an earlier book from an Armada of Bridget Jones clones. The book written when a writer is unknown takes as long as the writer thinks it needs; if the writer thinks it needs uninterrupted concentration, he or she can save up money and quit a job and do nothing but write. This can hardly be said to apply to the work of published authors, whose new books are often contractually tied to a deadline, and who generally work on the new book amid constant interruptions from those seeing earlier work into print. Faulkner is said to have written As I Lay Dying in six weeks while working as a security guard; it’s easy to imagine writing with that kind of intensity under those circumstances, less easy to imagine someone writing such a book while simultaneously defending the MS of an earlier book from an Armada of Bridget Jones clones.

]]> By: indiana jim http://www.overcomingbias.com/2008/03/biased-for-and.html#comment-407347 indiana jim Fri, 07 Mar 2008 23:09:20 +0000 http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2008/03/bias-and-power.html#comment-407347 "People tend to assume that the professor is right 100 percent of the time, and the student 0 percent. A more accurate breakup in my experience is 60/40. ... " The 60/40 I would buy because what I, as a professor observe, is that 60% of college professors are competent. I, of course, am among the 60%who ARE correct virtually 100% of the time. “People tend to assume that the professor is right 100 percent of the time, and the student 0 percent. A more accurate breakup in my experience is 60/40. … ”

The 60/40 I would buy because what I, as a professor observe, is that 60% of college professors are competent. I, of course, am among the 60%who ARE correct virtually 100% of the time.

]]> By: Shakespeare's Fool http://www.overcomingbias.com/2008/03/biased-for-and.html#comment-407346 Shakespeare's Fool Fri, 07 Mar 2008 21:25:05 +0000 http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2008/03/bias-and-power.html#comment-407346 Venkat, Thank you for the link to your "The fifteen laws of meeting power." Definitely worth thinking through. John Venkat,
Thank you for the link to your “The fifteen laws of meeting power.” Definitely worth thinking through.
John

]]> By: Alan Gunn http://www.overcomingbias.com/2008/03/biased-for-and.html#comment-407345 Alan Gunn Fri, 07 Mar 2008 21:06:06 +0000 http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2008/03/bias-and-power.html#comment-407345 Nice post, but I don't think Tom Clancy is an example of the phenomenon. A lot of people, including authors, have just one idea--once they've written their book, that's it, really, except for fumbling around. And, as for Clancy in particular, all of his characters are the same guy with different names and jobs--no reason for him to keep on, and I doubt that even a lot of effort on his part would make a difference. Maybe Harper Lee was smart to quit after "To Kill a Mockingbird." Nice post, but I don’t think Tom Clancy is an example of the phenomenon. A lot of people, including authors, have just one idea–once they’ve written their book, that’s it, really, except for fumbling around. And, as for Clancy in particular, all of his characters are the same guy with different names and jobs–no reason for him to keep on, and I doubt that even a lot of effort on his part would make a difference. Maybe Harper Lee was smart to quit after “To Kill a Mockingbird.”

]]> By: anonymous http://www.overcomingbias.com/2008/03/biased-for-and.html#comment-407344 anonymous Fri, 07 Mar 2008 18:03:15 +0000 http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2008/03/bias-and-power.html#comment-407344 <i>Isn't "bias toward power" just another name for credentialism?</i> Nope. A credential is just an acknowledgment of competence: credentials aqnd other kinds of certification should rationally be taken into account whenever their issuer is a reasonably trusted party. AFAICT, power does not enter into the issue at all. Isn’t “bias toward power” just another name for credentialism?

Nope. A credential is just an acknowledgment of competence: credentials aqnd other kinds of certification should rationally be taken into account whenever their issuer is a reasonably trusted party. AFAICT, power does not enter into the issue at all.

]]> By: Mark http://www.overcomingbias.com/2008/03/biased-for-and.html#comment-407343 Mark Fri, 07 Mar 2008 16:49:53 +0000 http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2008/03/bias-and-power.html#comment-407343 Isn't "bias toward power" just another name for credentialism? Isn’t “bias toward power” just another name for credentialism?

]]> By: Silas http://www.overcomingbias.com/2008/03/biased-for-and.html#comment-407342 Silas Fri, 07 Mar 2008 16:33:49 +0000 http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2008/03/bias-and-power.html#comment-407342 Eliezer_Yudkowsky: You may be right for certain authors, but the claim was for works in general. What about all the one-hit-wonders in music or movies? (Btw, "number", as the comparative of "numb", is hard to parse because it looks at first like #.) Eliezer_Yudkowsky: You may be right for certain authors, but the claim was for works in general. What about all the one-hit-wonders in music or movies?

(Btw, “number”, as the comparative of “numb”, is hard to parse because it looks at first like #.)

]]> By: Eliezer Yudkowsky http://www.overcomingbias.com/2008/03/biased-for-and.html#comment-407341 Eliezer Yudkowsky Fri, 07 Mar 2008 16:19:31 +0000 http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2008/03/bias-and-power.html#comment-407341 I wonder if this effect is any different for authors than for executives? There's a very definite Senior Author Syndrome with examples without number - Robert Heinlein, Orson Scott Card, Anne McCaffrey, and the list goes on. Perhaps this is related to the editors deciding that they can just sell any book by that author, or the author getting powerful enough to refuse editing assistance. Or maybe, once an author makes enough money to lead a comfortable life, or just get old enough to be number to negative emotions, they can't hurt their characters enough for a good story. Definitely, part of Senior Author Syndrome is that your characters seem to stop getting hurt, and nothing really bad happens in your worlds anymore. I've got to say, the notion of fooled-by-randomness/regression-to-the-mean doesn't seem very plausible here. We're talking about a long series of good books, starting good, getting better, spread out over years, but then over decades gradually degenerating into plotless painless random event sequences. I wonder if this effect is any different for authors than for executives? There’s a very definite Senior Author Syndrome with examples without number – Robert Heinlein, Orson Scott Card, Anne McCaffrey, and the list goes on. Perhaps this is related to the editors deciding that they can just sell any book by that author, or the author getting powerful enough to refuse editing assistance. Or maybe, once an author makes enough money to lead a comfortable life, or just get old enough to be number to negative emotions, they can’t hurt their characters enough for a good story. Definitely, part of Senior Author Syndrome is that your characters seem to stop getting hurt, and nothing really bad happens in your worlds anymore.

I’ve got to say, the notion of fooled-by-randomness/regression-to-the-mean doesn’t seem very plausible here. We’re talking about a long series of good books, starting good, getting better, spread out over years, but then over decades gradually degenerating into plotless painless random event sequences.

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