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	<title>Comments on: Merger Decision Markets</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.overcomingbias.com/2008/02/merger-decision.html/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2008/02/merger-decision.html</link>
	<description>Overcoming Bias is economist Robin Hanson’s blog, on honesty, signaling, disagreement, forecasting, and the far future.</description>
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		<title>By: Peter McCluskey</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2008/02/merger-decision.html#comment-408569</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter McCluskey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Feb 2008 20:24:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2008/02/merger-decision-markets.html#comment-408569</guid>
		<description>Why doesn&#039;t the reaction of the two stock prices to the news tell us enough about whether stockholders benefit?
Erich, employee manipulation could easily be a problem if outsiders were unable to trade or unable to evaluate the effects. If outsiders can see that the prices are inaccurate, then the employees will need to spend arbitrarily large amounts of money to maintain the manipulation. Also, the employees face free-rider problems - each employee wants the other employees to devote money to manipulating the market, but doesn&#039;t gain from devoting his own money to it unless that money turns out to be the manipulation that stops the merger.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why doesn&#8217;t the reaction of the two stock prices to the news tell us enough about whether stockholders benefit?<br />
Erich, employee manipulation could easily be a problem if outsiders were unable to trade or unable to evaluate the effects. If outsiders can see that the prices are inaccurate, then the employees will need to spend arbitrarily large amounts of money to maintain the manipulation. Also, the employees face free-rider problems &#8211; each employee wants the other employees to devote money to manipulating the market, but doesn&#8217;t gain from devoting his own money to it unless that money turns out to be the manipulation that stops the merger.</p>
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		<title>By: Erich</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2008/02/merger-decision.html#comment-408568</link>
		<dc:creator>Erich</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Feb 2008 15:05:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2008/02/merger-decision-markets.html#comment-408568</guid>
		<description>Executives are acting in their own self interest in not allowing prediction markets to elbow in on their sphere power.  Part of it is ego, part of it is reaping the rewards of a tournament environment.  There will have to be a clear cut, prediction market-driven organization to lead the way to greater acceptance and implementation at these levels.

Furthermore, if a market for mergers did exist, I would expect to see a lot of employees use their raffle points to short positions that may actually threaten their job security.  If Yahoo has a rather strong HR talent, the Microsoft HR department should aggressively try to bias the decision as to not become a casualty of synergy.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Executives are acting in their own self interest in not allowing prediction markets to elbow in on their sphere power.  Part of it is ego, part of it is reaping the rewards of a tournament environment.  There will have to be a clear cut, prediction market-driven organization to lead the way to greater acceptance and implementation at these levels.</p>
<p>Furthermore, if a market for mergers did exist, I would expect to see a lot of employees use their raffle points to short positions that may actually threaten their job security.  If Yahoo has a rather strong HR talent, the Microsoft HR department should aggressively try to bias the decision as to not become a casualty of synergy.</p>
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		<title>By: Grant</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2008/02/merger-decision.html#comment-408567</link>
		<dc:creator>Grant</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Feb 2008 04:07:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2008/02/merger-decision-markets.html#comment-408567</guid>
		<description>Doug,
&lt;i&gt;Remember, a decision making process that corrects for agent failure is not in the interest of agents!&lt;/i&gt;

True, and I&#039;d say thats why successful companies (such as Oracle and Microsoft) are often run by people with large stakes in them. Presumably you&#039;d also have a constant evolution of corporate charters which governed decision-making processes (hopefully helping to weed out bad agents), but I don&#039;t know how much of modern corporate structure is set in stone by law. Some of what many boards of directors do seems somewhat incestuous to me.

I don&#039;t think its clear that MSFT and YHOO were wrong not to use a prediction market (or at least one publicly known of) to assist in their decision.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Doug,<br />
<i>Remember, a decision making process that corrects for agent failure is not in the interest of agents!</i></p>
<p>True, and I&#8217;d say thats why successful companies (such as Oracle and Microsoft) are often run by people with large stakes in them. Presumably you&#8217;d also have a constant evolution of corporate charters which governed decision-making processes (hopefully helping to weed out bad agents), but I don&#8217;t know how much of modern corporate structure is set in stone by law. Some of what many boards of directors do seems somewhat incestuous to me.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think its clear that MSFT and YHOO were wrong not to use a prediction market (or at least one publicly known of) to assist in their decision.</p>
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		<title>By: Doug S.</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2008/02/merger-decision.html#comment-408566</link>
		<dc:creator>Doug S.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Feb 2008 01:30:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2008/02/merger-decision-markets.html#comment-408566</guid>
		<description>Mergers rather consistently produce less value for shareholders than predicted by corporate officials, or so I seem to recall reading. They seem to be motivated by the interests of those who propose the merger. Remember, a decision making process that corrects for agent failure is not in the interest of agents!
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mergers rather consistently produce less value for shareholders than predicted by corporate officials, or so I seem to recall reading. They seem to be motivated by the interests of those who propose the merger. Remember, a decision making process that corrects for agent failure is not in the interest of agents!</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Kenny</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2008/02/merger-decision.html#comment-408565</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Kenny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Feb 2008 00:26:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2008/02/merger-decision-markets.html#comment-408565</guid>
		<description>Grant, I think I see your point.  On the other hand, I think a good prediction about general expert opinion of a policy would perhaps help us get a better sense of the various intangibles that might go into forming an expert consensus.

Most economists might agree that X policy will lead to Y outcome, and this might be taken as an endorsement by policy-makers, whereas if you also asked economists whether they would think Y outcome would be considered good by economists in the future, the economists in the present might generally say no.

Of course, a problem here would be conflating expert values with the values of the general public.  Experts probably see things more clearly than the general public in terms of what is, but might have much different values from the public generally, and assuming this, experts generally might not act as good proxies for the public.  Perhaps a bet on the opinion of intelligent lay people in 5 or 10 years time would be useful.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Grant, I think I see your point.  On the other hand, I think a good prediction about general expert opinion of a policy would perhaps help us get a better sense of the various intangibles that might go into forming an expert consensus.</p>
<p>Most economists might agree that X policy will lead to Y outcome, and this might be taken as an endorsement by policy-makers, whereas if you also asked economists whether they would think Y outcome would be considered good by economists in the future, the economists in the present might generally say no.</p>
<p>Of course, a problem here would be conflating expert values with the values of the general public.  Experts probably see things more clearly than the general public in terms of what is, but might have much different values from the public generally, and assuming this, experts generally might not act as good proxies for the public.  Perhaps a bet on the opinion of intelligent lay people in 5 or 10 years time would be useful.</p>
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		<title>By: Grant</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2008/02/merger-decision.html#comment-408564</link>
		<dc:creator>Grant</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Feb 2008 21:18:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2008/02/merger-decision-markets.html#comment-408564</guid>
		<description>Ah, my bad, I thought we were talking about trading a generic futures contract (e.g., a conditional Intrade contract) and not actual stock options. Come to think of it, I didn&#039;t know if conditional stock options even exist (or are even legal).

Mike, my first thought is that markets give experts incentives to participate just like anyone else. Experts of course tend to be more sure of their opinions and thus would be more likely to participate in the market and add their private information than laymen might be (so your pool of &quot;experts&quot; would be self-selected from incentives in this case). So I&#039;m not really sure why we&#039;d necessarily care to predict the outcome of &quot;expert&quot; polling.

My first thought on the reasons prediction markets aren&#039;t used in cases like this is the degree of private information consolidated in the firms&#039; executives. Their long-term business plans to create value from the merger are not going to be things they are going to want to share with others. Given this, the executives might not feel (perhaps arrogantly) that outsiders have enough knowledge to make accurate predictions. Has anyone written anything on practical uses of prediction markets in cases like this? I am also skeptical I would be able to use them to guide many business decisions for the above reasons.

Or it also could be that most haven&#039;t heard of prediction markets yet. Most of the executives I&#039;ve talked to haven&#039;t. The last issue of the HBR talked about the &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delphi_method&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Delphi method&lt;/a&gt;, but did not mention prediction markets.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ah, my bad, I thought we were talking about trading a generic futures contract (e.g., a conditional Intrade contract) and not actual stock options. Come to think of it, I didn&#8217;t know if conditional stock options even exist (or are even legal).</p>
<p>Mike, my first thought is that markets give experts incentives to participate just like anyone else. Experts of course tend to be more sure of their opinions and thus would be more likely to participate in the market and add their private information than laymen might be (so your pool of &#8220;experts&#8221; would be self-selected from incentives in this case). So I&#8217;m not really sure why we&#8217;d necessarily care to predict the outcome of &#8220;expert&#8221; polling.</p>
<p>My first thought on the reasons prediction markets aren&#8217;t used in cases like this is the degree of private information consolidated in the firms&#8217; executives. Their long-term business plans to create value from the merger are not going to be things they are going to want to share with others. Given this, the executives might not feel (perhaps arrogantly) that outsiders have enough knowledge to make accurate predictions. Has anyone written anything on practical uses of prediction markets in cases like this? I am also skeptical I would be able to use them to guide many business decisions for the above reasons.</p>
<p>Or it also could be that most haven&#8217;t heard of prediction markets yet. Most of the executives I&#8217;ve talked to haven&#8217;t. The last issue of the HBR talked about the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delphi_method" rel="nofollow">Delphi method</a>, but did not mention prediction markets.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Kenny</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2008/02/merger-decision.html#comment-408563</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Kenny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Feb 2008 20:38:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2008/02/merger-decision-markets.html#comment-408563</guid>
		<description>Grant, my thought: it seems better to trust expert consensus over my own opinion, even if experts&#039; incentives aren&#039;t completely in my interest.  Perhaps I am wrong about this.  The polling process would probably need to be fairly explicit at the time betting is started.  &quot;We will have X polling company ask Y number of randomly selected Ph.D. Economics professors if they agree or disagree with the following question...&quot;

My impression is a decision market would be the best tool for guessing expert consensus in the future compared to other tools.  Perhaps I am wrong about this too!

Robin, would the estimates not be valuable?  Or is it they are valuable but it&#039;s tough to persuade decision-makers?  I&#039;m not quite sure of your question.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Grant, my thought: it seems better to trust expert consensus over my own opinion, even if experts&#8217; incentives aren&#8217;t completely in my interest.  Perhaps I am wrong about this.  The polling process would probably need to be fairly explicit at the time betting is started.  &#8220;We will have X polling company ask Y number of randomly selected Ph.D. Economics professors if they agree or disagree with the following question&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>My impression is a decision market would be the best tool for guessing expert consensus in the future compared to other tools.  Perhaps I am wrong about this too!</p>
<p>Robin, would the estimates not be valuable?  Or is it they are valuable but it&#8217;s tough to persuade decision-makers?  I&#8217;m not quite sure of your question.</p>
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		<title>By: Robin Hanson</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2008/02/merger-decision.html#comment-408562</link>
		<dc:creator>Robin Hanson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Feb 2008 20:03:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2008/02/merger-decision-markets.html#comment-408562</guid>
		<description>Mike, the question is who would be persuaded by such estimates.

James, yes markets can have secret prices, though we expect them to suffer an accuracy penalty in this case.

Grant, this &lt;i&gt;is&lt;/i&gt; conditional stock futures.

Psuedo, there are &lt;i&gt;not&lt;/i&gt; transparent predictions like this in ordinary stock prices.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mike, the question is who would be persuaded by such estimates.</p>
<p>James, yes markets can have secret prices, though we expect them to suffer an accuracy penalty in this case.</p>
<p>Grant, this <i>is</i> conditional stock futures.</p>
<p>Psuedo, there are <i>not</i> transparent predictions like this in ordinary stock prices.</p>
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		<title>By: Douglas Knight</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2008/02/merger-decision.html#comment-408561</link>
		<dc:creator>Douglas Knight</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Feb 2008 19:56:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2008/02/merger-decision-markets.html#comment-408561</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;these companies are just not serious about finding the highest value applications of prediction markets&lt;/em&gt;

Companies are rarely serious about anything. The interesting question is whether the managers are serious. These examples are easily explained as principal-agent conflict and tell us little about the managers&#039; beliefs. It&#039;s also possible that they (correctly!) believe that if they let the genie out of the bottle, they&#039;ll be forced to use it in examples like these.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>these companies are just not serious about finding the highest value applications of prediction markets</em></p>
<p>Companies are rarely serious about anything. The interesting question is whether the managers are serious. These examples are easily explained as principal-agent conflict and tell us little about the managers&#8217; beliefs. It&#8217;s also possible that they (correctly!) believe that if they let the genie out of the bottle, they&#8217;ll be forced to use it in examples like these.</p>
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		<title>By: Pseudonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2008/02/merger-decision.html#comment-408560</link>
		<dc:creator>Pseudonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Feb 2008 19:43:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2008/02/merger-decision-markets.html#comment-408560</guid>
		<description>Doesn&#039;t the stock market make this sort of prediction every day?

I would expect prediction markets to have their greatest effect when they are not (effectively) duplicating an existing market.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Doesn&#8217;t the stock market make this sort of prediction every day?</p>
<p>I would expect prediction markets to have their greatest effect when they are not (effectively) duplicating an existing market.</p>
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