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	<title>Comments on: Let&#8217;s Do Like Them</title>
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	<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2008/02/lets-do-like-th.html</link>
	<description>Overcoming Bias is economist Robin Hanson’s blog, on honesty, signaling, disagreement, forecasting, and the far future.</description>
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		<title>By: yupieyoe</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2008/02/lets-do-like-th.html#comment-408525</link>
		<dc:creator>yupieyoe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Feb 2008 23:24:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2008/02/lets-do-like-them.html#comment-408525</guid>
		<description>I live in Belgium; here, it&#039;s the other way around: comparison of announced government measures or law proposals to the ones of other countries, is made extensively (&quot;In The Netherlands, they have a system which...&quot; / &quot;Look what a disaster the UK Railway privatisation was, let&#039;s not do that here&quot; / ...).

To the extent that it is mostly an excuse to hide ideological motives. For every possible change, there has to be a neighbouring country which applied just that (or further away, we recently had a fierce discussion about the &quot;kiwi model&quot; consisting of the New Zealand way of using government tenders for drugs). Regardless of any other circumstances which might differ and make the comparison worthless.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I live in Belgium; here, it&#8217;s the other way around: comparison of announced government measures or law proposals to the ones of other countries, is made extensively (&#8220;In The Netherlands, they have a system which&#8230;&#8221; / &#8220;Look what a disaster the UK Railway privatisation was, let&#8217;s not do that here&#8221; / &#8230;).</p>
<p>To the extent that it is mostly an excuse to hide ideological motives. For every possible change, there has to be a neighbouring country which applied just that (or further away, we recently had a fierce discussion about the &#8220;kiwi model&#8221; consisting of the New Zealand way of using government tenders for drugs). Regardless of any other circumstances which might differ and make the comparison worthless.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2008/02/lets-do-like-th.html#comment-408524</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Feb 2008 21:26:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2008/02/lets-do-like-them.html#comment-408524</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve heard a lot of things that I don&#039;t know are true. If they were all true, then that may mean a lot of things.

I am going to make a list of all the things that I have heard that I don&#039;t know are true. After I do that, I&#039;ll go from there.

In the mean time, I&#039;ll stick to the one thing I know is true. There is an imaginary line over which were I to cross, I could get drugs cheaper than if I stayed on this side of that line.

The reason we can not cross that over that line, or have the &#039;other-side-of-the-line-people&#039; ship the drugs to us at the lower price is that the people who have the power to make us pay more have persuaded the people who have the power to let us pay less to stop us from paying less.

In a nutshell, we are paying a sales tax to the pharmaceuticals. They are just tossing out strawmen to cover the action taken by our &#039;duly elected representatives in our democratic nation&#039;.

Nothing new or rare in that for our &#039;duly&#039; folk.

As for the remedy for that, that too is a prescription issue.

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve heard a lot of things that I don&#8217;t know are true. If they were all true, then that may mean a lot of things.</p>
<p>I am going to make a list of all the things that I have heard that I don&#8217;t know are true. After I do that, I&#8217;ll go from there.</p>
<p>In the mean time, I&#8217;ll stick to the one thing I know is true. There is an imaginary line over which were I to cross, I could get drugs cheaper than if I stayed on this side of that line.</p>
<p>The reason we can not cross that over that line, or have the &#8216;other-side-of-the-line-people&#8217; ship the drugs to us at the lower price is that the people who have the power to make us pay more have persuaded the people who have the power to let us pay less to stop us from paying less.</p>
<p>In a nutshell, we are paying a sales tax to the pharmaceuticals. They are just tossing out strawmen to cover the action taken by our &#8216;duly elected representatives in our democratic nation&#8217;.</p>
<p>Nothing new or rare in that for our &#8216;duly&#8217; folk.</p>
<p>As for the remedy for that, that too is a prescription issue.</p>
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		<title>By: Byrne</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2008/02/lets-do-like-th.html#comment-408523</link>
		<dc:creator>Byrne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Feb 2008 19:22:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2008/02/lets-do-like-them.html#comment-408523</guid>
		<description>American politicians are working in a country with a Federal tradition. The Platonic American practice would be to have some states that were like France, and some states that were like Singapore, and to see which ones people wanted to live in.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>American politicians are working in a country with a Federal tradition. The Platonic American practice would be to have some states that were like France, and some states that were like Singapore, and to see which ones people wanted to live in.</p>
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		<title>By: Douglas Knight</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2008/02/lets-do-like-th.html#comment-408522</link>
		<dc:creator>Douglas Knight</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Feb 2008 04:40:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2008/02/lets-do-like-them.html#comment-408522</guid>
		<description>It may be reasonable to claim that the US pays the world&#039;s pharmaceutical R&amp;D, but this isn&#039;t much compared to the whole pie. Doctors&#039; salaries are a bigger chunk, but still not so much of the story. Those two figures are pretty objective, but the US system of nominal prices negotiated between insurers and hospitals makes is pretty hard to tell what all the rest of the money is doing. The same is true under socialized medicine, but, I think, to a lesser extent.

Singapore, with something closer to a real price system, spends half as much as France (as a percent of gdp). That&#039;s so little that the doctors&#039; salaries are half of it.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It may be reasonable to claim that the US pays the world&#8217;s pharmaceutical R&#038;D, but this isn&#8217;t much compared to the whole pie. Doctors&#8217; salaries are a bigger chunk, but still not so much of the story. Those two figures are pretty objective, but the US system of nominal prices negotiated between insurers and hospitals makes is pretty hard to tell what all the rest of the money is doing. The same is true under socialized medicine, but, I think, to a lesser extent.</p>
<p>Singapore, with something closer to a real price system, spends half as much as France (as a percent of gdp). That&#8217;s so little that the doctors&#8217; salaries are half of it.</p>
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		<title>By: George Weinberg</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2008/02/lets-do-like-th.html#comment-408521</link>
		<dc:creator>George Weinberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Feb 2008 23:42:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2008/02/lets-do-like-them.html#comment-408521</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s not necessarily true that the US could adopt something like the French system and get French results at French prices. Why is healthcare in the US so much more expensive than in France? I presume it&#039;s mostly because our doctors make more and we have more procedures done. Switching to a tax-funded system isn&#039;t necessarily going to change either of those.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s not necessarily true that the US could adopt something like the French system and get French results at French prices. Why is healthcare in the US so much more expensive than in France? I presume it&#8217;s mostly because our doctors make more and we have more procedures done. Switching to a tax-funded system isn&#8217;t necessarily going to change either of those.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2008/02/lets-do-like-th.html#comment-408520</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Feb 2008 19:41:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2008/02/lets-do-like-them.html#comment-408520</guid>
		<description>Does anyone know of any plausible estimates of US Healthcare R&amp;D?

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Does anyone know of any plausible estimates of US Healthcare R&#038;D?</p>
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		<title>By: Manon de Gaillande</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2008/02/lets-do-like-th.html#comment-408519</link>
		<dc:creator>Manon de Gaillande</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Feb 2008 18:30:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2008/02/lets-do-like-them.html#comment-408519</guid>
		<description>To clarify: the French system may be expensive, but not that much; some of the money it generates is moved to other state services, sometimes as a side-effect of other policy decisions, sometimes to blame problems on the healthcare system.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To clarify: the French system may be expensive, but not that much; some of the money it generates is moved to other state services, sometimes as a side-effect of other policy decisions, sometimes to blame problems on the healthcare system.</p>
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		<title>By: Silas</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2008/02/lets-do-like-th.html#comment-408518</link>
		<dc:creator>Silas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Feb 2008 17:00:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2008/02/lets-do-like-them.html#comment-408518</guid>
		<description>Eliezer_Yudkowsky: Insofar as other contries free-ride off U.S. pharmaceutical R&amp;D through various patent circumventions (not just ignoring patents, but e.g. price controls that prevent charging the full market price given IP in the drug), that claim would be absolutely correct.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eliezer_Yudkowsky: Insofar as other contries free-ride off U.S. pharmaceutical R&#038;D through various patent circumventions (not just ignoring patents, but e.g. price controls that prevent charging the full market price given IP in the drug), that claim would be absolutely correct.</p>
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		<title>By: Eliezer Yudkowsky</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2008/02/lets-do-like-th.html#comment-408517</link>
		<dc:creator>Eliezer Yudkowsky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Feb 2008 16:10:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2008/02/lets-do-like-them.html#comment-408517</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve oft heard it alleged that US healthcare pays the world&#039;s R&amp;D costs.  Don&#039;t know if it&#039;s true.  If so, that may mean that other healthcare systems are just as inefficient as ours, but with one less expense.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve oft heard it alleged that US healthcare pays the world&#8217;s R&#038;D costs.  Don&#8217;t know if it&#8217;s true.  If so, that may mean that other healthcare systems are just as inefficient as ours, but with one less expense.</p>
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		<title>By: Max</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2008/02/lets-do-like-th.html#comment-408516</link>
		<dc:creator>Max</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Feb 2008 16:05:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2008/02/lets-do-like-them.html#comment-408516</guid>
		<description>Colin Reid,

I think the refusal to consider policies of other countries is a cultural predisposition of American politics. It may have something to do with how the US was born as the partial opposition to the Old World, so to adopt any meaninful policy from Europe would be seen as un-American. As others have pointed out, the political discourse is different in other parts of the world.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Colin Reid,</p>
<p>I think the refusal to consider policies of other countries is a cultural predisposition of American politics. It may have something to do with how the US was born as the partial opposition to the Old World, so to adopt any meaninful policy from Europe would be seen as un-American. As others have pointed out, the political discourse is different in other parts of the world.</p>
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