Comments on: I Dare You Bunzl http://www.overcomingbias.com/2008/01/in-yesterdays-p.html Overcoming Bias is economist Robin Hanson’s blog, on honesty, signaling, disagreement, forecasting, and the far future. Sat, 11 Feb 2012 23:23:58 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.3 By: Robin Hanson http://www.overcomingbias.com/2008/01/in-yesterdays-p.html#comment-410146 Robin Hanson Thu, 17 Jan 2008 18:38:20 +0000 http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2008/01/i-dare-you-bunzl.html#comment-410146 See the "added" above. See the “added” above.

]]> By: Paul Gowder http://www.overcomingbias.com/2008/01/in-yesterdays-p.html#comment-410145 Paul Gowder Sun, 06 Jan 2008 01:29:54 +0000 http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2008/01/i-dare-you-bunzl.html#comment-410145 <i> I conclude Bunzi cares mainly about changing the rest of us, but was unwilling to admit this directly. Why, I wonder?</i> Because he gets a, to use the vernacular, metric assload more disutility from everyone else using a Hummer (and hence dumping greenhouse gases, creating road hazards, raising oil prices, etc.) than he does from using it himself? I mean, come on. The climate change issue is a massive honking collective action problem. It might not be individually irrational for him to own a Hummer, but it sure is collectively irrational for everyone who can afford one to have one. Isn't solving collective action problems what the state is <i>for</i>? (Even Milton Friedman could have agreed with that.) Admittedly, Bunzl expressed this very badly, and the issue of hyperbolic discounting seems like a red herring here. Who cares whether it's individually rational or not to buy the less energy-efficient washing machine? I mean, really, who cares? At all? The point is the collective problem. I conclude Bunzi cares mainly about changing the rest of us, but was unwilling to admit this directly. Why, I wonder?

Because he gets a, to use the vernacular, metric assload more disutility from everyone else using a Hummer (and hence dumping greenhouse gases, creating road hazards, raising oil prices, etc.) than he does from using it himself?

I mean, come on. The climate change issue is a massive honking collective action problem. It might not be individually irrational for him to own a Hummer, but it sure is collectively irrational for everyone who can afford one to have one. Isn’t solving collective action problems what the state is for? (Even Milton Friedman could have agreed with that.)

Admittedly, Bunzl expressed this very badly, and the issue of hyperbolic discounting seems like a red herring here. Who cares whether it’s individually rational or not to buy the less energy-efficient washing machine? I mean, really, who cares? At all? The point is the collective problem.

]]> By: James Bach http://www.overcomingbias.com/2008/01/in-yesterdays-p.html#comment-410144 James Bach Thu, 03 Jan 2008 02:10:26 +0000 http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2008/01/i-dare-you-bunzl.html#comment-410144 I'm not a rationalist, myself, but I'm surprised that some rationalist hasn't yet pointed out that hypocrisy is a rational strategy. It's classic game theory stuff, right? Encourage lots of people to move in one direction, then if they do, you get an advantage as the only cheater. It's like the tragedy of the commons, except that it's not a tragedy for the one person who abuses the commons, if ONLY one person abuses them. I’m not a rationalist, myself, but I’m surprised that some rationalist hasn’t yet pointed out that hypocrisy is a rational strategy. It’s classic game theory stuff, right? Encourage lots of people to move in one direction, then if they do, you get an advantage as the only cheater. It’s like the tragedy of the commons, except that it’s not a tragedy for the one person who abuses the commons, if ONLY one person abuses them.

]]> By: Caledonian http://www.overcomingbias.com/2008/01/in-yesterdays-p.html#comment-410143 Caledonian Thu, 03 Jan 2008 00:01:40 +0000 http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2008/01/i-dare-you-bunzl.html#comment-410143 <blockquote>Are desires subject to rationality or is desire just another word for preference?</blockquote> As I understand their usages, 'preference' is passive, while 'desire' is active. Preference are inert unless you're presented with a choice. Desires are motivations to bring about or create the desired state.

Are desires subject to rationality or is desire just another word for preference?

As I understand their usages, ‘preference’ is passive, while ‘desire’ is active. Preference are inert unless you’re presented with a choice. Desires are motivations to bring about or create the desired state.

]]> By: Nick Tarleton http://www.overcomingbias.com/2008/01/in-yesterdays-p.html#comment-410142 Nick Tarleton Wed, 02 Jan 2008 23:41:57 +0000 http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2008/01/i-dare-you-bunzl.html#comment-410142 Intransitive preferences, at least, are irrational; and while (say) a discount rate of 100% a day may not be strictly <i>irrational</i>, it's clearly unreasonable, even insane. Intransitive preferences, at least, are irrational; and while (say) a discount rate of 100% a day may not be strictly irrational, it’s clearly unreasonable, even insane.

]]> By: josh http://www.overcomingbias.com/2008/01/in-yesterdays-p.html#comment-410141 josh Wed, 02 Jan 2008 22:48:07 +0000 http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2008/01/i-dare-you-bunzl.html#comment-410141 Are desires subject to rationality or is desire just another word for preference? Are desires subject to rationality or is desire just another word for preference?

]]> By: Caledonian http://www.overcomingbias.com/2008/01/in-yesterdays-p.html#comment-410140 Caledonian Wed, 02 Jan 2008 22:23:15 +0000 http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2008/01/i-dare-you-bunzl.html#comment-410140 <blockquote>People have irrational desires, therefore fulfilling their desires is irrational.</blockquote> Fulfilling their <i>irrational</i> desires is irrational.

People have irrational desires, therefore fulfilling their desires is irrational.

Fulfilling their irrational desires is irrational.

]]> By: Mike http://www.overcomingbias.com/2008/01/in-yesterdays-p.html#comment-410139 Mike Wed, 02 Jan 2008 21:32:12 +0000 http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2008/01/i-dare-you-bunzl.html#comment-410139 It seems pretty clear that he cares mostly about "changing the rest of us" as you put it, given that he's directing something called the Institute on Climate Change. I don't see anything underhanded about it, though; he's using himself as an illustrative instance of the difficulty of the problem, not doing some sort of self-help meditation about the tortured choices he must endure. That he wants everyone to change is pretty much assumed in the article. It seems pretty clear that he cares mostly about “changing the rest of us” as you put it, given that he’s directing something called the Institute on Climate Change. I don’t see anything underhanded about it, though; he’s using himself as an illustrative instance of the difficulty of the problem, not doing some sort of self-help meditation about the tortured choices he must endure. That he wants everyone to change is pretty much assumed in the article.

]]> By: poke http://www.overcomingbias.com/2008/01/in-yesterdays-p.html#comment-410138 poke Wed, 02 Jan 2008 18:41:33 +0000 http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2008/01/i-dare-you-bunzl.html#comment-410138 Satire or not, the man has a point: People have irrational desires, therefore fulfilling their desires is irrational. Satire or not, the man has a point: People have irrational desires, therefore fulfilling their desires is irrational.

]]> By: Robin Hanson http://www.overcomingbias.com/2008/01/in-yesterdays-p.html#comment-410137 Robin Hanson Wed, 02 Jan 2008 17:14:33 +0000 http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2008/01/i-dare-you-bunzl.html#comment-410137 Steven, thanks; fixed the spelling error. Silas, good points. Steven, thanks; fixed the spelling error.

Silas, good points.

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