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	<title>Comments on: Tax The Tall</title>
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	<description>Overcoming Bias is economist Robin Hanson’s blog, on honesty, signaling, disagreement, forecasting, and the far future.</description>
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		<title>By: Overcoming Bias : Reply to Clarke</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2007/12/tax-the-tall.html#comment-425285</link>
		<dc:creator>Overcoming Bias : Reply to Clarke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Jun 2009 16:15:49 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] I find it hard to believe this intuition really is &#8220;deeply held.&#8221;  As I said when I first blogged on [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] I find it hard to believe this intuition really is &#8220;deeply held.&#8221;  As I said when I first blogged on [...]</p>
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		<title>By: bigjim</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2007/12/tax-the-tall.html#comment-428065</link>
		<dc:creator>bigjim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Jan 2008 23:24:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2007/12/tax-the-tall.html#comment-428065</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Why do taxes exist anyway? Why is it right  to redistribute wealth? Why shouldn&#039;t I just pay for the public goods I consume rather than pay  for those others consume?  I&#039;m speaking as a high income, fit and healthy, privately educated 28 yr old who feels he&#039;s not getting much value for his tax payments already, and I&#039;m 6&#039;8&quot; (and hairy) to boot!  A tax on the tall? Let all the tall people unite against whomever tries to force that on us and see what happens... The meek shall not inherit the Earth!&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why do taxes exist anyway? Why is it right  to redistribute wealth? Why shouldn&#8217;t I just pay for the public goods I consume rather than pay  for those others consume?  I&#8217;m speaking as a high income, fit and healthy, privately educated 28 yr old who feels he&#8217;s not getting much value for his tax payments already, and I&#8217;m 6&#8242;8&#8243; (and hairy) to boot!  A tax on the tall? Let all the tall people unite against whomever tries to force that on us and see what happens&#8230; The meek shall not inherit the Earth!</p>
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		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2007/12/tax-the-tall.html#comment-428064</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jan 2008 13:43:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2007/12/tax-the-tall.html#comment-428064</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;In particular: we tax income based on an idea of justice, we take marriage, children etc. into account more to incentivise the family than to adjust fairness - we do not need to incentivise being short.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;In general: this seems to indicate that economics is less a science than its supporters admit - these decisions are highly political not theoretical.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In particular: we tax income based on an idea of justice, we take marriage, children etc. into account more to incentivise the family than to adjust fairness &#8211; we do not need to incentivise being short.</p>
<p>In general: this seems to indicate that economics is less a science than its supporters admit &#8211; these decisions are highly political not theoretical.</p>
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		<title>By: conchis</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2007/12/tax-the-tall.html#comment-428063</link>
		<dc:creator>conchis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Dec 2007 23:48:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2007/12/tax-the-tall.html#comment-428063</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;notsneaky, I generally appreciate your arguments, but here I think you&#039;re off-base.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;&quot;why would only &#039;income&#039; be a status good, but not &#039;leisure&#039;... there&#039;s no reason to think that one particular effect must dominate the other - as it is usually assumed&quot;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Well, it&#039;s not usually &#039;assumed&#039;. It&#039;s widely recognised that for the argument from status effects to even get off the ground, such effects have to operate more strongly in respect of some goods than others - which is why people have been trying to test these ideas empirically rather than just making assumptions. There &lt;i&gt;is&lt;/i&gt; actually evidence that people don&#039;t seem to treat, say, the number of weeks holiday they get as a status good in the same way that they do income. (And FWIW, the evidence for the latter doesn&#039;t seem to me to be confined to idiosyncratic goods and groups at all. It tends to turn up on income for nationally representative samples in a variety of countries. Those that don&#039;t fit this pattern seem to be the exception rather than the rule. There are reasons to be careful here, but that&#039;s really not one of them.) &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;There are perhaps some definitional issues here about what counts as leisure and what counts as consumption, but your example of people bragging about where they went on holiday doesn&#039;t seem to support your point terribly well, given that bragging rights are likely to be pretty strongly linked to how expensive a place is to visit and consequently to income. I agree that this whole issue becomes more complicated if there are multiple positional goods. But if many, or most of those goods are linked to income, then that tends to reduce the complexity rather a lot. Whether they are is &lt;i&gt;something&lt;/i&gt; of an open question, but as far as I can tell, it&#039;s not quite as open as you seem to think, and contrary to your assertions, those you&#039;re criticising are hardly unaware of this issue.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I&#039;m going to refrain from speculating as to your motives for not liking the argument. I&#039;d suggest you extend the same charity to those who disagree with you. There seems to me to be very little reason to suspect they&#039;re more biased than you are.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>notsneaky, I generally appreciate your arguments, but here I think you&#8217;re off-base.</p>
<p>&#8220;why would only &#8216;income&#8217; be a status good, but not &#8216;leisure&#8217;&#8230; there&#8217;s no reason to think that one particular effect must dominate the other &#8211; as it is usually assumed&#8221;</p>
<p>Well, it&#8217;s not usually &#8216;assumed&#8217;. It&#8217;s widely recognised that for the argument from status effects to even get off the ground, such effects have to operate more strongly in respect of some goods than others &#8211; which is why people have been trying to test these ideas empirically rather than just making assumptions. There <i>is</i> actually evidence that people don&#8217;t seem to treat, say, the number of weeks holiday they get as a status good in the same way that they do income. (And FWIW, the evidence for the latter doesn&#8217;t seem to me to be confined to idiosyncratic goods and groups at all. It tends to turn up on income for nationally representative samples in a variety of countries. Those that don&#8217;t fit this pattern seem to be the exception rather than the rule. There are reasons to be careful here, but that&#8217;s really not one of them.) </p>
<p>There are perhaps some definitional issues here about what counts as leisure and what counts as consumption, but your example of people bragging about where they went on holiday doesn&#8217;t seem to support your point terribly well, given that bragging rights are likely to be pretty strongly linked to how expensive a place is to visit and consequently to income. I agree that this whole issue becomes more complicated if there are multiple positional goods. But if many, or most of those goods are linked to income, then that tends to reduce the complexity rather a lot. Whether they are is <i>something</i> of an open question, but as far as I can tell, it&#8217;s not quite as open as you seem to think, and contrary to your assertions, those you&#8217;re criticising are hardly unaware of this issue.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m going to refrain from speculating as to your motives for not liking the argument. I&#8217;d suggest you extend the same charity to those who disagree with you. There seems to me to be very little reason to suspect they&#8217;re more biased than you are.</p>
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		<title>By: notsneaky</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2007/12/tax-the-tall.html#comment-428062</link>
		<dc:creator>notsneaky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Dec 2007 19:16:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2007/12/tax-the-tall.html#comment-428062</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;To add to steven&#039;s comment about envy above (with which I broadly agree); If there is more than one positional/status good then it gets a lot more complicated. For example, why would only &#039;income&#039; be a status good, but not &#039;leisure&#039;? People certainly brag about where they spend their vacations, how much free time they have, etc. In that instance it may be the case that people end up working &#039;too little&#039; (although, again, it&#039;s mostly the problem of those who care about status in the first place). At the very least, there&#039;s no reason to think that one particular effect must dominate the other - as it is usually assumed when this status/Pigovian justification is invoked. The evidence for status effects, aside from some idiosyncratic goods and groups, is, in my opinion fairly weak. All of which suggests that people like the justification not because there&#039;s meat to it, but rather simply because it justifies higher taxes.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To add to steven&#8217;s comment about envy above (with which I broadly agree); If there is more than one positional/status good then it gets a lot more complicated. For example, why would only &#8216;income&#8217; be a status good, but not &#8216;leisure&#8217;? People certainly brag about where they spend their vacations, how much free time they have, etc. In that instance it may be the case that people end up working &#8216;too little&#8217; (although, again, it&#8217;s mostly the problem of those who care about status in the first place). At the very least, there&#8217;s no reason to think that one particular effect must dominate the other &#8211; as it is usually assumed when this status/Pigovian justification is invoked. The evidence for status effects, aside from some idiosyncratic goods and groups, is, in my opinion fairly weak. All of which suggests that people like the justification not because there&#8217;s meat to it, but rather simply because it justifies higher taxes.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2007/12/tax-the-tall.html#comment-428061</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Dec 2007 14:58:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2007/12/tax-the-tall.html#comment-428061</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;a) the &#039;tax the tall&#039; proposal could best be considered as a didactic troll&lt;br&gt;
b) if &#039;standard economic theory&#039; doesn&#039;t take into account the irrational emotional impact of economic policy it&#039;s not worth tiddly squat.&lt;br&gt;
c) the disincentive effect of progressive income tax may be real, but it&#039;s not rational, and would not be, unless the marginal tax rate exceeded 100%.  The point at which the marginal utility of additional effort becomes zero is overwhelmingly subjective.  Pure emotion at work, as anyone who&#039;s had a lunchtime discussion with their higher income colleagues will readily agree.&lt;br&gt;
d) the &#039;tax the tall&#039; troll is didactic because it introduces several beautiful biases in a condensed space&lt;br&gt;
Bias no 1 :  The assumption that &#039;not to disincentive effort&#039; is an absolute good.   Not proven.  Go home and spend time with your children.&lt;br&gt;
Bias no 2 : The assumption that &#039;taxing the tall&#039; would not have any undesirable side-effects.  Not proven.  As a tall person, it would put me in a highly unproductive murderous rage (no more or less rational than the disincentive effect of progressive income tax).&lt;br&gt;
Bias no. 3 : Positing that taxing the tall is reasonable because tallness has a moderate correlation with income, then sliding to the argument that it is preferable, because it is not a tax on income.  Pure irrationality, and once the thought process became widely known, would reinforce the effect listed under bias no 2..&lt;br&gt;
Bias no 4 : Having created an impression of absurdity in most readers, the argument goes on, by juxtaposition, to its real intention, which is to contaminate its objective (progressive income tax) with the same or higher impression of absurdity.  There is no demonstration, just juxtaposition, with the hope that the impression that postulate B is at least as absurd as postulate A will transmit like an electric spark.&lt;br&gt;
Bias No. 5 : Postulate B is the idea of a &#039;tax on entrepreneurial ability&#039;.   The bias is introduced by neglecting to distinguish between the tax on the entrepreneur as an individual and the tax on the wealth creating entity, the enterprise.  Entrepreneurs have sometimes had a bad name for trying to take advantage of the fevourable taxation of the enterprise to reduce the taxation on themselves as individuals.  As individuals, entrpreneurs are taxed according to the same principles as everyone else.&lt;br&gt;
Bias no 6 : is created by the vague and emotionally charged word &#039;Entrepreneur&#039; itself.  What constitutes an entrepreneur ?  Anyone who takes a stab at anything, in the sense of trying something he/she is not sure of succeeding, is an entrepreneur.  If I postulate (as an ugly 70 year old) for a job at McDonalds, in my way I&#039;m an entrepreneur.  Wealth is created as much or more by the salaried employee as by the absentee Chairman of the Board.  So is taxing my senior citizen job at McD a tax on entrepreneurial ability ?  The intentional emotionally charged reframing is similar to that involved in describing inheritance tax (a tax on the unearned income of the inheritors) as a &#039;death tax&#039;.  I read that example in Judy Harris&#039;s book on personality.&lt;br&gt;
e)  The didactic effort takes us back to the underlying discussion, which as Robin points out, is as old as debates on taxes :  &#039;so waddya think about progressive income tax ?&#039;&lt;br&gt;
f) Economics 101 : putting the words &#039;fairness&#039; and &#039;tax&#039; in the same sentence is like putting matter and anti-matter in the same box.&lt;br&gt;
g)  We get straight back to Darwin, with the tension between the legitimate interests of the individual and the legitimate interests of the group, both contributing to the survival of the Intelligent Tax gene.  Robin, please reformulate tax policy in Darwinian terms.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>a) the &#8216;tax the tall&#8217; proposal could best be considered as a didactic troll<br />
b) if &#8217;standard economic theory&#8217; doesn&#8217;t take into account the irrational emotional impact of economic policy it&#8217;s not worth tiddly squat.<br />
c) the disincentive effect of progressive income tax may be real, but it&#8217;s not rational, and would not be, unless the marginal tax rate exceeded 100%.  The point at which the marginal utility of additional effort becomes zero is overwhelmingly subjective.  Pure emotion at work, as anyone who&#8217;s had a lunchtime discussion with their higher income colleagues will readily agree.<br />
d) the &#8216;tax the tall&#8217; troll is didactic because it introduces several beautiful biases in a condensed space<br />
Bias no 1 :  The assumption that &#8216;not to disincentive effort&#8217; is an absolute good.   Not proven.  Go home and spend time with your children.<br />
Bias no 2 : The assumption that &#8216;taxing the tall&#8217; would not have any undesirable side-effects.  Not proven.  As a tall person, it would put me in a highly unproductive murderous rage (no more or less rational than the disincentive effect of progressive income tax).<br />
Bias no. 3 : Positing that taxing the tall is reasonable because tallness has a moderate correlation with income, then sliding to the argument that it is preferable, because it is not a tax on income.  Pure irrationality, and once the thought process became widely known, would reinforce the effect listed under bias no 2..<br />
Bias no 4 : Having created an impression of absurdity in most readers, the argument goes on, by juxtaposition, to its real intention, which is to contaminate its objective (progressive income tax) with the same or higher impression of absurdity.  There is no demonstration, just juxtaposition, with the hope that the impression that postulate B is at least as absurd as postulate A will transmit like an electric spark.<br />
Bias No. 5 : Postulate B is the idea of a &#8216;tax on entrepreneurial ability&#8217;.   The bias is introduced by neglecting to distinguish between the tax on the entrepreneur as an individual and the tax on the wealth creating entity, the enterprise.  Entrepreneurs have sometimes had a bad name for trying to take advantage of the fevourable taxation of the enterprise to reduce the taxation on themselves as individuals.  As individuals, entrpreneurs are taxed according to the same principles as everyone else.<br />
Bias no 6 : is created by the vague and emotionally charged word &#8216;Entrepreneur&#8217; itself.  What constitutes an entrepreneur ?  Anyone who takes a stab at anything, in the sense of trying something he/she is not sure of succeeding, is an entrepreneur.  If I postulate (as an ugly 70 year old) for a job at McDonalds, in my way I&#8217;m an entrepreneur.  Wealth is created as much or more by the salaried employee as by the absentee Chairman of the Board.  So is taxing my senior citizen job at McD a tax on entrepreneurial ability ?  The intentional emotionally charged reframing is similar to that involved in describing inheritance tax (a tax on the unearned income of the inheritors) as a &#8216;death tax&#8217;.  I read that example in Judy Harris&#8217;s book on personality.<br />
e)  The didactic effort takes us back to the underlying discussion, which as Robin points out, is as old as debates on taxes :  &#8217;so waddya think about progressive income tax ?&#8217;<br />
f) Economics 101 : putting the words &#8216;fairness&#8217; and &#8216;tax&#8217; in the same sentence is like putting matter and anti-matter in the same box.<br />
g)  We get straight back to Darwin, with the tension between the legitimate interests of the individual and the legitimate interests of the group, both contributing to the survival of the Intelligent Tax gene.  Robin, please reformulate tax policy in Darwinian terms.</p>
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		<title>By: conchis</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2007/12/tax-the-tall.html#comment-428060</link>
		<dc:creator>conchis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Dec 2007 14:55:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2007/12/tax-the-tall.html#comment-428060</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&quot;I&#039;m very skeptical of any excuses for why they shouldn&#039;t be, because I don&#039;t trust governments and I don&#039;t trust voters. I think there is value in living in a society where tall taxes are taboo, and I wouldn&#039;t trade that value for a little more efficiency in the economy.&quot;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I would tend to apply this more narrowly: I agree there&#039;s value in making it difficult to pass laws that discriminate between people in particular ways. However, I&#039;d depart from your blanket position in a number of ways. First, I think the value of making-things-difficult is instrumental rather than fundamental. It&#039;s an institutional strategy for achieving good outcomes, not a good outcome in and of itself. Second, I&#039;m inclined to  think absolute prohibitions aren&#039;t typically necessary.* Sometimes the expected benefits will far outweigh the risk of getting it wrong (and any risk of setting off on a slippery slope). The best solution seems to me to instead focus on requiring a higher burden of proof when governments try to do things that are in some sense &quot;suspect&quot;. &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Finally, and perhaps most importantly here, I think that we should make-things-difficult in response to &lt;i&gt;specific&lt;/i&gt;, &lt;i&gt;identified&lt;/i&gt; biases in either voters themselves, or majoritarian decision-making more generally. It&#039;s seems difficult to motivate the &quot;equality before the law&quot; constraint on the basis of a &lt;i&gt;general&lt;/i&gt; distrust of governments and voters: that would seem to suggest far stronger restrictions on government doing &lt;i&gt;anything at all&lt;/i&gt;, not just on it doing &quot;discriminatory&quot; things. On the other hand, if you&#039;re looking to respond to specific, identified biases, then the &quot;equality before the law&quot; constraint seems unnecessarily broad. In this case, for example, I see very little danger of any such biases operating in favour of something like the height tax (If anything, they would seem to militate against the tax, but that&#039;s a more contentious position not crucial to my point.) There&#039;s consequently no need to put obstacles in the way of it&#039;s imposition.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;In fact, this is (sort of) what the courts&#039; application of the equal protection clause does: puts higher hurdles in the way of measures that distinguish between people on particular grounds that they think are likely to be suspect; and lower hurdles or none at all in the way of measures that distinguish on other grounds. I don&#039;t necessarily think they do it that well, or coherently, but you can see something of this sort of reasoning behind their practice.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;* Actually, I&#039;m inclined to think that an general prohibition on government discriminating would be incoherent rather than merely unnecessary, certainly without specifying more precisely &quot;between whom?&quot; and &quot;in respect of what outcomes?&quot; But the argument for this position is too involved to go into here, so I won&#039;t expect you to buy it. A good account can be found in Peter Western&#039;s &quot;The Empty Idea of Equality&quot;.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;&quot;Your concept of fairness has more to do with everyone winding up equal rather than everyone being treated as equal by the government.&quot; &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Actually, the sort of equality that I&#039;m committed to doesn&#039;t correspond to either of these formulations very well. I&#039;m probably something like a capability prioritarian.  &lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I&#8217;m very skeptical of any excuses for why they shouldn&#8217;t be, because I don&#8217;t trust governments and I don&#8217;t trust voters. I think there is value in living in a society where tall taxes are taboo, and I wouldn&#8217;t trade that value for a little more efficiency in the economy.&#8221;</p>
<p>I would tend to apply this more narrowly: I agree there&#8217;s value in making it difficult to pass laws that discriminate between people in particular ways. However, I&#8217;d depart from your blanket position in a number of ways. First, I think the value of making-things-difficult is instrumental rather than fundamental. It&#8217;s an institutional strategy for achieving good outcomes, not a good outcome in and of itself. Second, I&#8217;m inclined to  think absolute prohibitions aren&#8217;t typically necessary.* Sometimes the expected benefits will far outweigh the risk of getting it wrong (and any risk of setting off on a slippery slope). The best solution seems to me to instead focus on requiring a higher burden of proof when governments try to do things that are in some sense &#8220;suspect&#8221;. </p>
<p>Finally, and perhaps most importantly here, I think that we should make-things-difficult in response to <i>specific</i>, <i>identified</i> biases in either voters themselves, or majoritarian decision-making more generally. It&#8217;s seems difficult to motivate the &#8220;equality before the law&#8221; constraint on the basis of a <i>general</i> distrust of governments and voters: that would seem to suggest far stronger restrictions on government doing <i>anything at all</i>, not just on it doing &#8220;discriminatory&#8221; things. On the other hand, if you&#8217;re looking to respond to specific, identified biases, then the &#8220;equality before the law&#8221; constraint seems unnecessarily broad. In this case, for example, I see very little danger of any such biases operating in favour of something like the height tax (If anything, they would seem to militate against the tax, but that&#8217;s a more contentious position not crucial to my point.) There&#8217;s consequently no need to put obstacles in the way of it&#8217;s imposition.</p>
<p>In fact, this is (sort of) what the courts&#8217; application of the equal protection clause does: puts higher hurdles in the way of measures that distinguish between people on particular grounds that they think are likely to be suspect; and lower hurdles or none at all in the way of measures that distinguish on other grounds. I don&#8217;t necessarily think they do it that well, or coherently, but you can see something of this sort of reasoning behind their practice.</p>
<p>* Actually, I&#8217;m inclined to think that an general prohibition on government discriminating would be incoherent rather than merely unnecessary, certainly without specifying more precisely &#8220;between whom?&#8221; and &#8220;in respect of what outcomes?&#8221; But the argument for this position is too involved to go into here, so I won&#8217;t expect you to buy it. A good account can be found in Peter Western&#8217;s &#8220;The Empty Idea of Equality&#8221;.</p>
<p>&#8220;Your concept of fairness has more to do with everyone winding up equal rather than everyone being treated as equal by the government.&#8221; </p>
<p>Actually, the sort of equality that I&#8217;m committed to doesn&#8217;t correspond to either of these formulations very well. I&#8217;m probably something like a capability prioritarian.  </p>
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		<title>By: Larry D'Anna</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2007/12/tax-the-tall.html#comment-428059</link>
		<dc:creator>Larry D'Anna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Dec 2007 13:03:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2007/12/tax-the-tall.html#comment-428059</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Conchis, I think you are right that the issues with a tall tax are the same as those for affirmative action.  I hate affirmative action.  Most american&#039;s don&#039;t seem to hate it though, even though we all agree they would hate a tall tax.  I wonder why that is.  &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;What I meant about the height becoming a suspect category was, that it *doesn&#039;t* *matter* what lawyers think about it.  The public would hate it and the courts would come around to the public&#039;s point of view eventually.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I think our basic disagreement comes down to this:  I don&#039;t want to live in a society where things like tall taxes get passed because someone thinks it will be more economically efficient, even if they&#039;re right.  I think the laws should be simple and non-discriminatory.  I&#039;m very skeptical of any excuses for why they shouldn&#039;t be, because I don&#039;t trust governments and I don&#039;t trust voters.  I think there is value in living in a society where tall taxes are taboo, and I wouldn&#039;t trade that value for a little more efficiency in the economy.  I value equality under the law  more than I value equality of outcomes.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;You don&#039;t mind the government tweaking and poking at the economy as long as they do it right.  Your concept of fairness has more to do with everyone winding up equal rather than everyone being treated as equal by the government.  You are more willing to let the government take a bigger role.  Am I wrong?&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Our disagreement is one of values more than one of facts.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Conchis, I think you are right that the issues with a tall tax are the same as those for affirmative action.  I hate affirmative action.  Most american&#8217;s don&#8217;t seem to hate it though, even though we all agree they would hate a tall tax.  I wonder why that is.  </p>
<p>What I meant about the height becoming a suspect category was, that it *doesn&#8217;t* *matter* what lawyers think about it.  The public would hate it and the courts would come around to the public&#8217;s point of view eventually.</p>
<p>I think our basic disagreement comes down to this:  I don&#8217;t want to live in a society where things like tall taxes get passed because someone thinks it will be more economically efficient, even if they&#8217;re right.  I think the laws should be simple and non-discriminatory.  I&#8217;m very skeptical of any excuses for why they shouldn&#8217;t be, because I don&#8217;t trust governments and I don&#8217;t trust voters.  I think there is value in living in a society where tall taxes are taboo, and I wouldn&#8217;t trade that value for a little more efficiency in the economy.  I value equality under the law  more than I value equality of outcomes.</p>
<p>You don&#8217;t mind the government tweaking and poking at the economy as long as they do it right.  Your concept of fairness has more to do with everyone winding up equal rather than everyone being treated as equal by the government.  You are more willing to let the government take a bigger role.  Am I wrong?</p>
<p>Our disagreement is one of values more than one of facts.</p>
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		<title>By: Robin Hanson</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2007/12/tax-the-tall.html#comment-428058</link>
		<dc:creator>Robin Hanson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Dec 2007 23:11:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2007/12/tax-the-tall.html#comment-428058</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Peter, the fitness as fairness theory would seem to predict we&#039;d be in favor of taxing the short, but I predict a similar opposition to that variation.  &lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Peter, the fitness as fairness theory would seem to predict we&#8217;d be in favor of taxing the short, but I predict a similar opposition to that variation.  </p>
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		<title>By: Peter McCluskey</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2007/12/tax-the-tall.html#comment-428057</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter McCluskey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Dec 2007 22:52:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2007/12/tax-the-tall.html#comment-428057</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I find it implausible that status quo bias explains most of the reaction to a tall tax.&lt;br&gt;
I wonder if some of the reaction results from an unconscious belief that good genes ought to be rewarded, along the lines you described in &lt;a href=&quot;http://hanson.gmu.edu/fairgene.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Is Fairness About Clear Fitness Signals?&lt;/a&gt;.&lt;br&gt;
Few people would admit to this motivation. Everyone ought to think more carefully about whether their beliefs are better explained by these motives than by the slogans that come to mind when they think about these issues.&lt;br&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I find it implausible that status quo bias explains most of the reaction to a tall tax.<br />
I wonder if some of the reaction results from an unconscious belief that good genes ought to be rewarded, along the lines you described in <a href="http://hanson.gmu.edu/fairgene.html" rel="nofollow">Is Fairness About Clear Fitness Signals?</a>.<br />
Few people would admit to this motivation. Everyone ought to think more carefully about whether their beliefs are better explained by these motives than by the slogans that come to mind when they think about these issues.</p>
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