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	<title>Comments on: Dawes on Therapy</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.overcomingbias.com/2007/11/dawes-on-psycho.html/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2007/11/dawes-on-psycho.html</link>
	<description>Overcoming Bias is economist Robin Hanson’s blog, on honesty, signaling, disagreement, forecasting, and the far future.</description>
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		<title>By: Ted Horoschak</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2007/11/dawes-on-psycho.html#comment-431070</link>
		<dc:creator>Ted Horoschak</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Aug 2009 15:51:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2007/11/dawes-on-therapy.html#comment-431070</guid>
		<description>&gt;had a two-to-one chance of being better off on the measure examined than &gt;someone chosen at random from the control group.  That is a very strong &gt;finding …

As stated here, this doesn&#039;t seem like a strong finding to me. We&#039;re told nothing about how strong anything is. The 2:1 says zero about the intensity (other than it was detectable by whatever measure used) of better-offedness. Were they suicidal and it saved their lives (pretty strong), or did they feel a little better for an hour (trivial)? What was the &quot;measure&quot;, and why would anyone care about it? A 2:1 chance of having a trivial effect would say nothing about the effectiveness of psychotherapy.

Is this a problem with the summary, or with the study itself?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt;had a two-to-one chance of being better off on the measure examined than &gt;someone chosen at random from the control group.  That is a very strong &gt;finding …</p>
<p>As stated here, this doesn&#8217;t seem like a strong finding to me. We&#8217;re told nothing about how strong anything is. The 2:1 says zero about the intensity (other than it was detectable by whatever measure used) of better-offedness. Were they suicidal and it saved their lives (pretty strong), or did they feel a little better for an hour (trivial)? What was the &#8220;measure&#8221;, and why would anyone care about it? A 2:1 chance of having a trivial effect would say nothing about the effectiveness of psychotherapy.</p>
<p>Is this a problem with the summary, or with the study itself?</p>
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		<title>By: Overcoming Bias : What Purpose Self Insight?</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2007/11/dawes-on-psycho.html#comment-431061</link>
		<dc:creator>Overcoming Bias : What Purpose Self Insight?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Aug 2009 10:00:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2007/11/dawes-on-therapy.html#comment-431061</guid>
		<description>[...] back in &#8216;07 I posted on Dawes on a review of psychotherapy [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] back in &#8216;07 I posted on Dawes on a review of psychotherapy [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Peter McCluskey</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2007/11/dawes-on-psycho.html#comment-412620</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter McCluskey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Nov 2007 15:29:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2007/11/dawes-on-therapy.html#comment-412620</guid>
		<description>The evidence for the Hawthorne effect is pretty weak (see &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawthorne_effect&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Wikipedia&lt;/a&gt;), and the belief that the Hawthorne Studies demonstrated such an effect involves a good deal of confirmation bias.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The evidence for the Hawthorne effect is pretty weak (see <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawthorne_effect" rel="nofollow">Wikipedia</a>), and the belief that the Hawthorne Studies demonstrated such an effect involves a good deal of confirmation bias.</p>
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		<title>By: Jor</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2007/11/dawes-on-psycho.html#comment-412619</link>
		<dc:creator>Jor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Nov 2007 22:26:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2007/11/dawes-on-therapy.html#comment-412619</guid>
		<description>just an fyi, there now are therapies that are more effective (by trial data) than just a shoulder to cry on for particular mental disorders. Cognitive-behavioral therapy for depression, exposure therapy for some anxiety disorders, and dialectic behavioral therapy for border-line personality disorder.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>just an fyi, there now are therapies that are more effective (by trial data) than just a shoulder to cry on for particular mental disorders. Cognitive-behavioral therapy for depression, exposure therapy for some anxiety disorders, and dialectic behavioral therapy for border-line personality disorder.</p>
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		<title>By: TGGP</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2007/11/dawes-on-psycho.html#comment-412618</link>
		<dc:creator>TGGP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Nov 2007 20:59:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2007/11/dawes-on-therapy.html#comment-412618</guid>
		<description>Robert Lindsay discusses his own mental illness and others who share it that state they benefited from discussing it with him &lt;a href=&quot;http://robertlindsay.blogspot.com/2007/10/robert-lindsay-is-good-for-you.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;. There are some funny stories there.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Robert Lindsay discusses his own mental illness and others who share it that state they benefited from discussing it with him <a href="http://robertlindsay.blogspot.com/2007/10/robert-lindsay-is-good-for-you.html" rel="nofollow">here</a>. There are some funny stories there.</p>
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		<title>By: cwurden</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2007/11/dawes-on-psycho.html#comment-412617</link>
		<dc:creator>cwurden</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Nov 2007 17:34:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2007/11/dawes-on-therapy.html#comment-412617</guid>
		<description>.


That people do better when they think others care about them is old news to social scientists .

The famous &#039;Hawthorne Studies&#039; of the 1920&#039;s-1930&#039;s documented such a common, placebo-like effect.

These studies of Chicago factory workers were scientifically attempting to improve worker productivity with various physical changes (better lighting &amp; temperature/humidity in work areas, wage incentives, etc.) -- but researchers discovered individual worker productivity generally increased no matter what they changed or did not change, even in the unaffected control groups.  The workers markedly benefited just by knowing others were directly interested in their work and were trying to help.

Harvard Professor Elton Mayo led this research and his &quot;Hawthorne Effect&quot; is a classic in professional psychology.

The significant human variable was not physiological but psychological-- and surprisingly easy to improve by simple interaction with other humans who care.


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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>.</p>
<p>That people do better when they think others care about them is old news to social scientists .</p>
<p>The famous &#8216;Hawthorne Studies&#8217; of the 1920&#8217;s-1930&#8217;s documented such a common, placebo-like effect.</p>
<p>These studies of Chicago factory workers were scientifically attempting to improve worker productivity with various physical changes (better lighting &#038; temperature/humidity in work areas, wage incentives, etc.) &#8212; but researchers discovered individual worker productivity generally increased no matter what they changed or did not change, even in the unaffected control groups.  The workers markedly benefited just by knowing others were directly interested in their work and were trying to help.</p>
<p>Harvard Professor Elton Mayo led this research and his &#8220;Hawthorne Effect&#8221; is a classic in professional psychology.</p>
<p>The significant human variable was not physiological but psychological&#8211; and surprisingly easy to improve by simple interaction with other humans who care.</p>
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		<title>By: manuelg</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2007/11/dawes-on-psycho.html#comment-412616</link>
		<dc:creator>manuelg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Nov 2007 17:03:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2007/11/dawes-on-therapy.html#comment-412616</guid>
		<description>Talking to random teenage girls will increase your life problems, not decrease.  Especially if the wife finds out.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Talking to random teenage girls will increase your life problems, not decrease.  Especially if the wife finds out.</p>
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		<title>By: Constant</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2007/11/dawes-on-psycho.html#comment-412615</link>
		<dc:creator>Constant</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Nov 2007 16:13:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2007/11/dawes-on-therapy.html#comment-412615</guid>
		<description>What about talking to an invisible, intangible, and inaudible person who allegedly has infinite understanding and love? Has the healing power of prayer been tested?
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What about talking to an invisible, intangible, and inaudible person who allegedly has infinite understanding and love? Has the healing power of prayer been tested?</p>
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		<title>By: Eliezer Yudkowsky</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2007/11/dawes-on-psycho.html#comment-412614</link>
		<dc:creator>Eliezer Yudkowsky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Nov 2007 16:04:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2007/11/dawes-on-therapy.html#comment-412614</guid>
		<description>If I recall correctly - I think it&#039;s from Dawes? - studies also showed that talking to a math professor works just as well as talking to a psychotherapist.  There may even have been a similar result for talking to random teenage girls.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If I recall correctly &#8211; I think it&#8217;s from Dawes? &#8211; studies also showed that talking to a math professor works just as well as talking to a psychotherapist.  There may even have been a similar result for talking to random teenage girls.</p>
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		<title>By: Constant</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2007/11/dawes-on-psycho.html#comment-412613</link>
		<dc:creator>Constant</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Nov 2007 15:10:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2007/11/dawes-on-therapy.html#comment-412613</guid>
		<description>Have they tested the effectiveness of a simple computer program that creates the illusion of a sympathetic ear? Eliza, for example?
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Have they tested the effectiveness of a simple computer program that creates the illusion of a sympathetic ear? Eliza, for example?</p>
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