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	<title>Comments on: Global Warming Skeptics Charge Believers with more Cognitive Biases than Believers do Skeptics: Why the asymmetry?</title>
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	<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2007/07/global-warming.html</link>
	<description>Overcoming Bias is economist Robin Hanson’s blog, on honesty, signaling, disagreement, forecasting, and the far future.</description>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2007/07/global-warming.html#comment-469859</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Apr 2011 19:08:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2007/07/global-warming-skeptics-charge-believers-with-more-cognitive-biases-than-believers-do-skeptics-why-the-asymmetry.html#comment-469859</guid>
		<description>Clearly at least one still does dispute point 3- given the tendency amongst a small percentage of the population (not actually known, but assumed from genetic diversion) I think it&#039;s safe to say that there&#039;s a small (though possibly statistically insigificant) number that would refute that claim.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Clearly at least one still does dispute point 3- given the tendency amongst a small percentage of the population (not actually known, but assumed from genetic diversion) I think it&#8217;s safe to say that there&#8217;s a small (though possibly statistically insigificant) number that would refute that claim.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2007/07/global-warming.html#comment-418185</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Mar 2009 22:40:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2007/07/global-warming-skeptics-charge-believers-with-more-cognitive-biases-than-believers-do-skeptics-why-the-asymmetry.html#comment-418185</guid>
		<description>&quot; &quot;JBS Haldane was a communist&quot; is no argument against his work on genetics.&quot;

But, if the Communist Party had an official policy on genetics, this fact might reflect on his motivations and biases.  Surely, a known or possible bias in a scientist isn&#039;t completely irrelevant.  Michael Mann&#039;s &quot;Hockey Stick&quot; graph can&#039;t be reproduced from his published data, for example -- there has to be an element of trust involved, which immediately makes evidence of personal bias relevant in evaluating his work.

Perhaps in a world of &quot;perfect information&quot;, ad hominem is not relevant, as the work can stand by itself:  But, in a world where trust is necessary, evidence of bias (and personal character) becomes relevant in determining how much trust is warrented.

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8221; &#8220;JBS Haldane was a communist&#8221; is no argument against his work on genetics.&#8221;</p>
<p>But, if the Communist Party had an official policy on genetics, this fact might reflect on his motivations and biases.  Surely, a known or possible bias in a scientist isn&#8217;t completely irrelevant.  Michael Mann&#8217;s &#8220;Hockey Stick&#8221; graph can&#8217;t be reproduced from his published data, for example &#8212; there has to be an element of trust involved, which immediately makes evidence of personal bias relevant in evaluating his work.</p>
<p>Perhaps in a world of &#8220;perfect information&#8221;, ad hominem is not relevant, as the work can stand by itself:  But, in a world where trust is necessary, evidence of bias (and personal character) becomes relevant in determining how much trust is warrented.</p>
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		<title>By: TGGP</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2007/07/global-warming.html#comment-418184</link>
		<dc:creator>TGGP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Mar 2009 21:37:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2007/07/global-warming-skeptics-charge-believers-with-more-cognitive-biases-than-believers-do-skeptics-why-the-asymmetry.html#comment-418184</guid>
		<description>Ad hominem is ad hominem even when true. &quot;JBS Haldane was a communist&quot; is no argument against his work on genetics.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ad hominem is ad hominem even when true. &#8220;JBS Haldane was a communist&#8221; is no argument against his work on genetics.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2007/07/global-warming.html#comment-418183</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Mar 2009 21:26:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2007/07/global-warming-skeptics-charge-believers-with-more-cognitive-biases-than-believers-do-skeptics-why-the-asymmetry.html#comment-418183</guid>
		<description>&quot;Ad Hominem claims ... Believers are seeking grant money, are ... socialist, communist, anarchist, etc.&quot;


So: is it really &quot;Ad Hominem&quot; to claim that many AGW activists are communists and socialists, when they really are?  Many of these folks (who used to, in fact, work against global trade and capitalism for the Socialist and Communist parties) have now adopted AGW as the most likely method to install massive government control and a socialist state.  It&#039;s not much of a stretch to think that their main motivation may not be future climate.

It&#039;s also clear (to anyone who has worked on grant money) that many of the AGW scientists are trying to grab a portion of the $5B grant stream (which dwarfs the moneys available from the energy industry). The resulting distortion of science and interaction with political policy is pretty close to what Eisenhower warned about in his farewell speech -- No, not the &quot;industrial-military complex&quot;, but the &quot;scientific-technologial elite&quot;.

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Ad Hominem claims &#8230; Believers are seeking grant money, are &#8230; socialist, communist, anarchist, etc.&#8221;</p>
<p>So: is it really &#8220;Ad Hominem&#8221; to claim that many AGW activists are communists and socialists, when they really are?  Many of these folks (who used to, in fact, work against global trade and capitalism for the Socialist and Communist parties) have now adopted AGW as the most likely method to install massive government control and a socialist state.  It&#8217;s not much of a stretch to think that their main motivation may not be future climate.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s also clear (to anyone who has worked on grant money) that many of the AGW scientists are trying to grab a portion of the $5B grant stream (which dwarfs the moneys available from the energy industry). The resulting distortion of science and interaction with political policy is pretty close to what Eisenhower warned about in his farewell speech &#8212; No, not the &#8220;industrial-military complex&#8221;, but the &#8220;scientific-technologial elite&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Nick Tarleton</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2007/07/global-warming.html#comment-418182</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick Tarleton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Mar 2008 16:17:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2007/07/global-warming-skeptics-charge-believers-with-more-cognitive-biases-than-believers-do-skeptics-why-the-asymmetry.html#comment-418182</guid>
		<description>You&#039;ll notice that the links look like &quot;http://http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loss_aversion&quot;. Remove the inner &quot;http//&quot; (to get e.g. &quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loss_aversion&quot;) and it should work.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;ll notice that the links look like &#8220;http://http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loss_aversion&#8221;. Remove the inner &#8220;http//&#8221; (to get e.g. &#8220;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loss_aversion&#8221;) and it should work.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2007/07/global-warming.html#comment-418181</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Mar 2008 15:52:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2007/07/global-warming-skeptics-charge-believers-with-more-cognitive-biases-than-believers-do-skeptics-why-the-asymmetry.html#comment-418181</guid>
		<description>All the links to the wikis within the main statement (top) titled &quot;Global Warming Skeptics Charge Believers with more Cognitive Biases than Believers do Skeptics: Why the asymmetry?&quot; appear to be broken (i.e. &quot;server not found&quot;).  Is there anyway to restore the (internal) links as the question and resolutions seem quite interesting.

jb
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All the links to the wikis within the main statement (top) titled &#8220;Global Warming Skeptics Charge Believers with more Cognitive Biases than Believers do Skeptics: Why the asymmetry?&#8221; appear to be broken (i.e. &#8220;server not found&#8221;).  Is there anyway to restore the (internal) links as the question and resolutions seem quite interesting.</p>
<p>jb</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2007/07/global-warming.html#comment-418180</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Mar 2008 15:51:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2007/07/global-warming-skeptics-charge-believers-with-more-cognitive-biases-than-believers-do-skeptics-why-the-asymmetry.html#comment-418180</guid>
		<description>All the links to the wikis within the main statement (top) titled &quot;Global Warming Skeptics Charge Believers with more Cognitive Biases than Believers do Skeptics: Why the asymmetry?&quot; appear to be broken (i.e. &quot;server not found&quot;).  Is there anyway to restore the (internal) links as the question and resolutions seem quite interesting.

jb
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All the links to the wikis within the main statement (top) titled &#8220;Global Warming Skeptics Charge Believers with more Cognitive Biases than Believers do Skeptics: Why the asymmetry?&#8221; appear to be broken (i.e. &#8220;server not found&#8221;).  Is there anyway to restore the (internal) links as the question and resolutions seem quite interesting.</p>
<p>jb</p>
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		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2007/07/global-warming.html#comment-418179</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Nov 2007 19:58:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2007/07/global-warming-skeptics-charge-believers-with-more-cognitive-biases-than-believers-do-skeptics-why-the-asymmetry.html#comment-418179</guid>
		<description>How absurd to pretend that playing with matches is dangerous, when it&#039;s clear that naturally originating wildfires have always been with us !  Seriously, it seems some cognitive sledgehammers are being used to crack some fairly obvious nuts.  Climate scientists aren&#039;t accusing their opponents of bias, because that is not their job nor their training.  They produce their evidence, with the appropriate ifs, buts, and maybes, and say &#039;hey, perhaps this is something that we need to be worried about&#039;.   As it&#039;s scary stuff, and most of us don&#039;t like being scared, particularly when our immediate comfort is at stake, a lot of people make it their very immediate business to accuse them of bias and make every effort to discredit them.  Never underestimate the fear factor.  QED.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How absurd to pretend that playing with matches is dangerous, when it&#8217;s clear that naturally originating wildfires have always been with us !  Seriously, it seems some cognitive sledgehammers are being used to crack some fairly obvious nuts.  Climate scientists aren&#8217;t accusing their opponents of bias, because that is not their job nor their training.  They produce their evidence, with the appropriate ifs, buts, and maybes, and say &#8216;hey, perhaps this is something that we need to be worried about&#8217;.   As it&#8217;s scary stuff, and most of us don&#8217;t like being scared, particularly when our immediate comfort is at stake, a lot of people make it their very immediate business to accuse them of bias and make every effort to discredit them.  Never underestimate the fear factor.  QED.</p>
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		<title>By: aaron</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2007/07/global-warming.html#comment-418178</link>
		<dc:creator>aaron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jul 2007 19:41:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2007/07/global-warming-skeptics-charge-believers-with-more-cognitive-biases-than-believers-do-skeptics-why-the-asymmetry.html#comment-418178</guid>
		<description>Oooh, you missed a skeptic bias.  I&#039;m curious.  I want to see what happens, and the results of a more active economy.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oooh, you missed a skeptic bias.  I&#8217;m curious.  I want to see what happens, and the results of a more active economy.</p>
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		<title>By: Jed Harris</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2007/07/global-warming.html#comment-418177</link>
		<dc:creator>Jed Harris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Jul 2007 08:33:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2007/07/global-warming-skeptics-charge-believers-with-more-cognitive-biases-than-believers-do-skeptics-why-the-asymmetry.html#comment-418177</guid>
		<description>While I have opinions about climate change and policy I wish we could set that aside and discuss the bias question that Bruce asked.

It seems like there are two somewhat different arguments about areas where bias is claimed:
- What we should believe about the future and
- What policies we should adopt given our beliefs about the future

Regarding what we should believe, there seem to be arguments about biases in modeling, biases about how much to trust the models, and biases about how to respond to uncertainty in our modeling.

Absent evidence to the contrary, these questions seem to be a domain of normal scientific debate.  I have seen just such debates and they have converged in the normal scientific way (for example resolving the disparities between ground and satellite temperature data).

The fact that after approximate convergence on a normal scientific consensus, the domain remains fraught with a lot of accusations of bias is unusual.  Why would people who still disagree in this area argue based on claims of bias, rather than developing models that demonstrate the validity of their own positions, showing things about the distribution of possible outcomes given uncertainty, etc.?

I&#039;m inclined to agree with Stuart Armstrong, but in any case I think we should all agree that this is an interesting phenomenon that needs to be explained.  If others have evidence for other explanations I&#039;d like to hear it.

The issue of policy biases is inherently murkier, because choices of policies are always murkier in our sub-lunary condition.

While policy preferences could legitimately drive funding for scientific investigations, they cannot legitimately drive judgments of scientific bias.

If there are strong correlations between policy preferences and accusations of bias, as I suspect, then that would be evidence as to why those accusations are made, and more generally why the scientific discussion is unusually prone to public debates about bias.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While I have opinions about climate change and policy I wish we could set that aside and discuss the bias question that Bruce asked.</p>
<p>It seems like there are two somewhat different arguments about areas where bias is claimed:<br />
- What we should believe about the future and<br />
- What policies we should adopt given our beliefs about the future</p>
<p>Regarding what we should believe, there seem to be arguments about biases in modeling, biases about how much to trust the models, and biases about how to respond to uncertainty in our modeling.</p>
<p>Absent evidence to the contrary, these questions seem to be a domain of normal scientific debate.  I have seen just such debates and they have converged in the normal scientific way (for example resolving the disparities between ground and satellite temperature data).</p>
<p>The fact that after approximate convergence on a normal scientific consensus, the domain remains fraught with a lot of accusations of bias is unusual.  Why would people who still disagree in this area argue based on claims of bias, rather than developing models that demonstrate the validity of their own positions, showing things about the distribution of possible outcomes given uncertainty, etc.?</p>
<p>I&#8217;m inclined to agree with Stuart Armstrong, but in any case I think we should all agree that this is an interesting phenomenon that needs to be explained.  If others have evidence for other explanations I&#8217;d like to hear it.</p>
<p>The issue of policy biases is inherently murkier, because choices of policies are always murkier in our sub-lunary condition.</p>
<p>While policy preferences could legitimately drive funding for scientific investigations, they cannot legitimately drive judgments of scientific bias.</p>
<p>If there are strong correlations between policy preferences and accusations of bias, as I suspect, then that would be evidence as to why those accusations are made, and more generally why the scientific discussion is unusually prone to public debates about bias.</p>
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