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	<title>Comments on: Expert At Versus Expert On</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.overcomingbias.com/2007/04/expert_at_versu.html/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2007/04/expert_at_versu.html</link>
	<description>Overcoming Bias is economist Robin Hanson’s blog, on honesty, signaling, disagreement, forecasting, and the far future.</description>
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		<title>By: Reading Yudkowsky, part 22</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2007/04/expert_at_versu.html#comment-468660</link>
		<dc:creator>Reading Yudkowsky, part 22</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Mar 2011 11:02:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2007/04/expert-at-versus-expert-on.html#comment-468660</guid>
		<description>[...] &#8220;goals&#8221; instead of using them, they oft become confused.  Humans are experts at planning, not experts on planning, or there&#8217;d be a lot more AI developers in the [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] &#8220;goals&#8221; instead of using them, they oft become confused.  Humans are experts at planning, not experts on planning, or there&#8217;d be a lot more AI developers in the [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Reading Yudkowsky, part 20</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2007/04/expert_at_versu.html#comment-468004</link>
		<dc:creator>Reading Yudkowsky, part 20</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Mar 2011 12:02:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2007/04/expert-at-versus-expert-on.html#comment-468004</guid>
		<description>[...] A Case Study in Motivated Continuation: In &#8220;bioethics&#8221; debates, you very often see experts on bioethics discussing what they see as the pros and cons of, say, stem-cell research; and then, at [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] A Case Study in Motivated Continuation: In &#8220;bioethics&#8221; debates, you very often see experts on bioethics discussing what they see as the pros and cons of, say, stem-cell research; and then, at [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Sergio Pinski</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2007/04/expert_at_versu.html#comment-419996</link>
		<dc:creator>Sergio Pinski</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Sep 2008 01:57:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2007/04/expert-at-versus-expert-on.html#comment-419996</guid>
		<description>I am a cardiologist myself. From my perspective:

Expert at: person who often makes and implements decisions, with good (measurable) outcomes far exceeding an occasional bad one.

Expert on: person who knows all (or most) the published/reported data on a particular topic.

These categories are not mutually exclusive. If you&#039;re seeking medical help, you&#039;ll aim at the Expert at.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am a cardiologist myself. From my perspective:</p>
<p>Expert at: person who often makes and implements decisions, with good (measurable) outcomes far exceeding an occasional bad one.</p>
<p>Expert on: person who knows all (or most) the published/reported data on a particular topic.</p>
<p>These categories are not mutually exclusive. If you&#8217;re seeking medical help, you&#8217;ll aim at the Expert at.</p>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2007/04/expert_at_versu.html#comment-419995</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Aug 2008 10:01:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2007/04/expert-at-versus-expert-on.html#comment-419995</guid>
		<description>This post is so full of bias I cannot help but wonder if it&#039;s actually a &quot;trick question&quot; trying to elicit responses ;-).

&quot;A prosperous and successful plumber is an expert at plumbing.   Someone who is a good source for accurate information on plumbing is an expert on plumbing.&quot;

They are not mutually exclusive.

&quot;More generally, an expert at a topic is someone who has gained the most attention, praise, income, and so on via their association with the topic.   But this may not be the best expert on that topic.&quot;

Of course not.

&quot;He may have succeeded by not giving the most accurate information, but by telling people what they want or expect to hear, or by entertaining them.&quot;

But an expert on a topic might succeed for the same reasons?  Because they are funny or good looking or...

&quot;We often rely on the heuristic of looking to an expert at a topic, when what we want is an expert on a topic.&quot;

As noted above, they are not mutually exclusive and in instances where they diverge, we might in fact want *both*.

&quot;In fact, most of the people we see being labeled as &quot;experts&quot; are primarily experts at topics.  For example, TV talking heads discussing topic X are usually people who have made a successful career in X.  We may see a general talk about war, or a CEO talk about business.&quot;

Really?!  I&#039;ve noticed just the opposite.  Frequently the people labeled experts on TV are experts on the topic, not experts at the topic.

&quot;But it a rare field where the best way to succeed is to always be completely honest with everyone about everything.&quot;

Hard to refute that statement considering how absolute it is.  I don&#039;t believe I know of a living human that is completely honest with everyone about everything.  In the context of this discussion I&#039;d be concerned not only with honesty on the part of an expert, but equal with cognitive bias.

&quot;We could greatly benefit from better ways to determine who is really an expert on a topic.  Prediction markets are one possibility.&quot;

Finally something we can agree on.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This post is so full of bias I cannot help but wonder if it&#8217;s actually a &#8220;trick question&#8221; trying to elicit responses <img src='http://www.overcomingbias.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> .</p>
<p>&#8220;A prosperous and successful plumber is an expert at plumbing.   Someone who is a good source for accurate information on plumbing is an expert on plumbing.&#8221;</p>
<p>They are not mutually exclusive.</p>
<p>&#8220;More generally, an expert at a topic is someone who has gained the most attention, praise, income, and so on via their association with the topic.   But this may not be the best expert on that topic.&#8221;</p>
<p>Of course not.</p>
<p>&#8220;He may have succeeded by not giving the most accurate information, but by telling people what they want or expect to hear, or by entertaining them.&#8221;</p>
<p>But an expert on a topic might succeed for the same reasons?  Because they are funny or good looking or&#8230;</p>
<p>&#8220;We often rely on the heuristic of looking to an expert at a topic, when what we want is an expert on a topic.&#8221;</p>
<p>As noted above, they are not mutually exclusive and in instances where they diverge, we might in fact want *both*.</p>
<p>&#8220;In fact, most of the people we see being labeled as &#8220;experts&#8221; are primarily experts at topics.  For example, TV talking heads discussing topic X are usually people who have made a successful career in X.  We may see a general talk about war, or a CEO talk about business.&#8221;</p>
<p>Really?!  I&#8217;ve noticed just the opposite.  Frequently the people labeled experts on TV are experts on the topic, not experts at the topic.</p>
<p>&#8220;But it a rare field where the best way to succeed is to always be completely honest with everyone about everything.&#8221;</p>
<p>Hard to refute that statement considering how absolute it is.  I don&#8217;t believe I know of a living human that is completely honest with everyone about everything.  In the context of this discussion I&#8217;d be concerned not only with honesty on the part of an expert, but equal with cognitive bias.</p>
<p>&#8220;We could greatly benefit from better ways to determine who is really an expert on a topic.  Prediction markets are one possibility.&#8221;</p>
<p>Finally something we can agree on.</p>
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		<title>By: michael vassar</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2007/04/expert_at_versu.html#comment-419994</link>
		<dc:creator>michael vassar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jun 2008 01:21:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2007/04/expert-at-versus-expert-on.html#comment-419994</guid>
		<description>Actually Phil, I&#039;m pretty sure that many theologians don&#039;t differ detectably on how their beliefs cash in from most atheists.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually Phil, I&#8217;m pretty sure that many theologians don&#8217;t differ detectably on how their beliefs cash in from most atheists.</p>
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		<title>By: Phil Goetz</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2007/04/expert_at_versu.html#comment-419993</link>
		<dc:creator>Phil Goetz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jun 2008 00:47:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2007/04/expert-at-versus-expert-on.html#comment-419993</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Expert at baseball: Plays well.&lt;br /&gt;
Expert on baseball: Knows lots of statistics.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Expert at religion:  A theologian.&lt;br /&gt;
Expert on religion:  An atheist.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Expert on animal behavior: An ethologist.&lt;br /&gt;
Expert at animal behavior: A cat.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Expert at baseball: Plays well.<br />
Expert on baseball: Knows lots of statistics.</p>
<p>Expert at religion:  A theologian.<br />
Expert on religion:  An atheist.</p>
<p>Expert on animal behavior: An ethologist.<br />
Expert at animal behavior: A cat.</p>
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		<title>By: Kiki</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2007/04/expert_at_versu.html#comment-419992</link>
		<dc:creator>Kiki</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jun 2008 00:12:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2007/04/expert-at-versus-expert-on.html#comment-419992</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I don&#039;t agree that experts at are the ones usually consulted. It varies from field to field. It is the lack of balance that is the problem.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;For example in the fields Innovation and Entrepreneurship, experts on predominate. And this limits effective policy making.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;We need a balance of advice from both experts at and experts on - both have their merits.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#39;t agree that experts at are the ones usually consulted. It varies from field to field. It is the lack of balance that is the problem.</p>
<p>For example in the fields Innovation and Entrepreneurship, experts on predominate. And this limits effective policy making.</p>
<p>We need a balance of advice from both experts at and experts on &#8211; both have their merits.</p>
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		<title>By: Cameron Taylor</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2007/04/expert_at_versu.html#comment-419991</link>
		<dc:creator>Cameron Taylor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Nov 2007 03:49:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2007/04/expert-at-versus-expert-on.html#comment-419991</guid>
		<description>I suggest a third alternative.

- Expert on: Knows all about it.
- Expert at: Can do it really well.
- Expert in: Has a lot of success while doing it.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I suggest a third alternative.</p>
<p>- Expert on: Knows all about it.<br />
- Expert at: Can do it really well.<br />
- Expert in: Has a lot of success while doing it.</p>
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		<title>By: sourcreamus</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2007/04/expert_at_versu.html#comment-419990</link>
		<dc:creator>sourcreamus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Apr 2007 18:52:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2007/04/expert-at-versus-expert-on.html#comment-419990</guid>
		<description>If the people who picked sports commentators understood this difference the world would be a much better place.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If the people who picked sports commentators understood this difference the world would be a much better place.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Sullivan</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2007/04/expert_at_versu.html#comment-419989</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Sullivan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Apr 2007 22:02:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2007/04/expert-at-versus-expert-on.html#comment-419989</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t think lying/marketing is the best explanation for a gap between experts at and experts on in most situations, including plumbers.   I know something about plumbing, just because I&#039;m mechanical and interested, though I would not consider myself anywhere near an expert on it.  But my expertise *at* it is far smaller still, because I while I understand the principles of how plumbing works, I&#039;ve never attempted any more than minor fixes.    I&#039;m also large and have fairly average finger dexterity and arm strength for a person my size, and probably less patience than average.  In attempting to do a few plumbing jobs myself, I&#039;ve discovered that while I knew what to do, actually getting various pieces apart without breaking them was big fat PITA.  I mostly don&#039;t do that anymore.  My point is not that I know more than a random professional plumber (I don&#039;t), merely that it is obvious to me that many of the skills necessary for them to succeed are incidental to the topic, and to decision such as whether your pipes need to be completely replaced.  Someone who is physically disabled could well be the best person to make the latter decision, but they won&#039;t be the best person to actually replace your pipes.

Let&#039;s take another subject I know even more about.  I&#039;m an owner of a print shop.  I know a lot about the capabilities of presses, and about the chemistry and mechanics involved in making them work.  I can often make correct decisions about the effect of an unusual adjustment that skilled operators cannot.  In some ways I&#039;m more of an expert *on* presses than they are.  But if I tried to actually run the press tomorrow, I&#039;d be lucky to produce 20% of the work that my best operators do.  They not only have some physical skills that are superior to mine, they have practice at doing the work every single day, and have developed a rhythm.  Lying or marketing is not a significant part of their success (except to the extent that they might get me to believe that some PITA job is actually impossible), but there&#039;s still a pretty big gulf between their expertise at, and my expertise on.

Coaching sports would be another good example.  Plenty of the best coaches never played their sport at the highest levels, because they simply did not have the physical gifts required.

In any case I don&#039;t think this is purely a distinction of successful vs. skilled, although that may be one dimension.  I think it&#039;s also about two different skills, one which involves immediate performance and is easier to measure, and one which involves pure knowledge and is harder to measure.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think lying/marketing is the best explanation for a gap between experts at and experts on in most situations, including plumbers.   I know something about plumbing, just because I&#8217;m mechanical and interested, though I would not consider myself anywhere near an expert on it.  But my expertise *at* it is far smaller still, because I while I understand the principles of how plumbing works, I&#8217;ve never attempted any more than minor fixes.    I&#8217;m also large and have fairly average finger dexterity and arm strength for a person my size, and probably less patience than average.  In attempting to do a few plumbing jobs myself, I&#8217;ve discovered that while I knew what to do, actually getting various pieces apart without breaking them was big fat PITA.  I mostly don&#8217;t do that anymore.  My point is not that I know more than a random professional plumber (I don&#8217;t), merely that it is obvious to me that many of the skills necessary for them to succeed are incidental to the topic, and to decision such as whether your pipes need to be completely replaced.  Someone who is physically disabled could well be the best person to make the latter decision, but they won&#8217;t be the best person to actually replace your pipes.</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s take another subject I know even more about.  I&#8217;m an owner of a print shop.  I know a lot about the capabilities of presses, and about the chemistry and mechanics involved in making them work.  I can often make correct decisions about the effect of an unusual adjustment that skilled operators cannot.  In some ways I&#8217;m more of an expert *on* presses than they are.  But if I tried to actually run the press tomorrow, I&#8217;d be lucky to produce 20% of the work that my best operators do.  They not only have some physical skills that are superior to mine, they have practice at doing the work every single day, and have developed a rhythm.  Lying or marketing is not a significant part of their success (except to the extent that they might get me to believe that some PITA job is actually impossible), but there&#8217;s still a pretty big gulf between their expertise at, and my expertise on.</p>
<p>Coaching sports would be another good example.  Plenty of the best coaches never played their sport at the highest levels, because they simply did not have the physical gifts required.</p>
<p>In any case I don&#8217;t think this is purely a distinction of successful vs. skilled, although that may be one dimension.  I think it&#8217;s also about two different skills, one which involves immediate performance and is easier to measure, and one which involves pure knowledge and is harder to measure.</p>
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