Comments on: Romantic Predators http://www.overcomingbias.com/2007/03/romantic_predat.html Overcoming Bias is economist Robin Hanson’s blog, on honesty, signaling, disagreement, forecasting, and the far future. Sun, 12 Feb 2012 01:09:57 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.3 By: Bob Gordon http://www.overcomingbias.com/2007/03/romantic_predat.html#comment-421451 Bob Gordon Fri, 09 Mar 2007 16:40:44 +0000 http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2007/03/romantic-predators.html#comment-421451 I just started reading this blog, and maybe I am not getting something, but every entry seems to be filled with unqualified bias. Take this one. Aside from the usual economist frame (relationships are games of exchange of sex for romantic commitment,) where is this idea that men look for more sex and women for romantic relationships come from? Sheesh, talk about simple minded acceptance of conventional "wisdom!" Please set me straight if I am off the mark, but I don't see anything about overcoming bias here... I just started reading this blog, and maybe I am not getting something, but every entry seems to be filled with unqualified bias. Take this one. Aside from the usual economist frame (relationships are games of exchange of sex for romantic commitment,) where is this idea that men look for more sex and women for romantic relationships come from? Sheesh, talk about simple minded acceptance of conventional “wisdom!” Please set me straight if I am off the mark, but I don’t see anything about overcoming bias here…

]]> By: zzz http://www.overcomingbias.com/2007/03/romantic_predat.html#comment-421450 zzz Wed, 07 Mar 2007 00:49:00 +0000 http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2007/03/romantic-predators.html#comment-421450 Dog of Justice, what about children who are raised not-so-well as a result of <i>unstable</i> romantic relationships? If Yan Li is right, placing a slightly <i>lesser</i> value on relationships vs. sex may well improve efficiency by encouraging clear-cut separation of those people who are most interested in a stable, long-term relationship. Dog of Justice, what about children who are raised not-so-well as a result of unstable romantic relationships? If Yan Li is right, placing a slightly lesser value on relationships vs. sex may well improve efficiency by encouraging clear-cut separation of those people who are most interested in a stable, long-term relationship.

]]> By: Dog of Justice http://www.overcomingbias.com/2007/03/romantic_predat.html#comment-421449 Dog of Justice Tue, 06 Mar 2007 23:27:35 +0000 http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2007/03/romantic-predators.html#comment-421449 I don't see why the conventional wisdom Eliezer refers to is incorrect. While I am a fan of transhumanism, I am not so confident in the imminence of human immortality, or the Singularity, or anything similar that I am ready to write off the family unit as obsolete. Children who are raised well are a GIGANTIC positive externality of stable romantic relationships, and indeed our society is dependent on this externality for its very survival. I don’t see why the conventional wisdom Eliezer refers to is incorrect.

While I am a fan of transhumanism, I am not so confident in the imminence of human immortality, or the Singularity, or anything similar that I am ready to write off the family unit as obsolete. Children who are raised well are a GIGANTIC positive externality of stable romantic relationships, and indeed our society is dependent on this externality for its very survival.

]]> By: zzz http://www.overcomingbias.com/2007/03/romantic_predat.html#comment-421448 zzz Tue, 06 Mar 2007 18:08:38 +0000 http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2007/03/romantic-predators.html#comment-421448 James, if the educational and income features applied equally to men and women, they would have no effect on the equilibrium ratio. If education, income prospects, etc. are kept constant, the optimal margin of substitution (neglecting job quality) will be 1-1. James, if the educational and income features applied equally to men and women, they would have no effect on the equilibrium ratio. If education, income prospects, etc. are kept constant, the optimal margin of substitution (neglecting job quality) will be 1-1.

]]> By: James http://www.overcomingbias.com/2007/03/romantic_predat.html#comment-421447 James Tue, 06 Mar 2007 16:21:57 +0000 http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2007/03/romantic-predators.html#comment-421447 Good point, ZZ. I have noticed that the types of jobs available in DC typically draw more men than women (high-tech, defense, politics, etc.). However, it is important to note that the men who work in these jobs tend to be highly-educated and have relatively high lifetime income prospects. Presumably these features are very desirable to women and I would expect that the greater likelihood of being able to find a husband with these qualities in DC would be enough to draw the marginal woman to the area. However, I realize that the accuracy of my assertion depends on how much weight women place on each of the factors they use to make the choice of where to live. Anyone know of any data on the magnitude of various factors women and men use when choosing a place to live? Good point, ZZ. I have noticed that the types of jobs available in DC typically draw more men than women (high-tech, defense, politics, etc.). However, it is important to note that the men who work in these jobs tend to be highly-educated and have relatively high lifetime income prospects. Presumably these features are very desirable to women and I would expect that the greater likelihood of being able to find a husband with these qualities in DC would be enough to draw the marginal woman to the area. However, I realize that the accuracy of my assertion depends on how much weight women place on each of the factors they use to make the choice of where to live. Anyone know of any data on the magnitude of various factors women and men use when choosing a place to live?

]]> By: zz http://www.overcomingbias.com/2007/03/romantic_predat.html#comment-421446 zz Mon, 05 Mar 2007 21:55:23 +0000 http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2007/03/romantic-predators.html#comment-421446 James, if jobs in Washington DC happened to be more favorable to men than women, the long-term equilibrium wouldn't be 50-50. Both men and women must trade-off jobs for relationships. James, if jobs in Washington DC happened to be more favorable to men than women, the long-term equilibrium wouldn’t be 50-50. Both men and women must trade-off jobs for relationships.

]]> By: James http://www.overcomingbias.com/2007/03/romantic_predat.html#comment-421445 James Mon, 05 Mar 2007 21:46:35 +0000 http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2007/03/romantic-predators.html#comment-421445 Robin, If you spent time among my circle of friends you would hear many references to the "unhealthy atmosphere for men" right here in our very own Washington, DC. I know several men who have moved away from DC because of their difficulty finding a suitable mate here. I remember reading a statistic a year ago that 60 of every 100 single DC residents is male. I am still wondering when this bargaining asymmetry will disappear and why it is taking so long for the mate market to swing into long-term equilibrium (which I assume is a 50-50 male to female ratio). Robin,

If you spent time among my circle of friends you would hear many references to the “unhealthy atmosphere for men” right here in our very own Washington, DC. I know several men who have moved away from DC because of their difficulty finding a suitable mate here. I remember reading a statistic a year ago that 60 of every 100 single DC residents is male. I am still wondering when this bargaining asymmetry will disappear and why it is taking so long for the mate market to swing into long-term equilibrium (which I assume is a 50-50 male to female ratio).

]]> By: zz http://www.overcomingbias.com/2007/03/romantic_predat.html#comment-421444 zz Mon, 05 Mar 2007 20:51:47 +0000 http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2007/03/romantic-predators.html#comment-421444 "One reason for the asymmetry may be the difference in time and effort needed to determine whether the other person is lying. A women has few cheap and reliable ways to determine whether a man who promises to be a life partner will change his mind next year, but a man can cheaply detect that a women who asks for a one-night stand and then attempts to get romance has deceived him." Peter, in the long run, women should know what they are getting into. Under a surplus-of-women situation, they can expect that men will be less likely to become life partners (caeteris paribus), and accordingly request stricter commitments as a condition of relationship. Their "bargaining power" may fall but deceit should not be an issue, per se. “One reason for the asymmetry may be the difference in time and effort needed to determine whether the other person is lying. A women has few cheap and reliable ways to determine whether a man who promises to be a life partner will change his mind next year, but a man can cheaply detect that a women who asks for a one-night stand and then attempts to get romance has deceived him.”

Peter, in the long run, women should know what they are getting into. Under a surplus-of-women situation, they can expect that men will be less likely to become life partners (caeteris paribus), and accordingly request stricter commitments as a condition of relationship. Their “bargaining power” may fall but deceit should not be an issue, per se.

]]> By: Peter McCluskey http://www.overcomingbias.com/2007/03/romantic_predat.html#comment-421443 Peter McCluskey Mon, 05 Mar 2007 15:41:55 +0000 http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2007/03/romantic-predators.html#comment-421443 One reason for the asymmetry may be the difference in time and effort needed to determine whether the other person is lying. A women has few cheap and reliable ways to determine whether a man who promises to be a life partner will change his mind next year, but a man can cheaply detect that a women who asks for a one-night stand and then attempts to get romance has deceived him. A surplus of men does create concerns, it's just that those concerns take different forms (e.g. concerns that societies with a high male to female ratio have more violence and are more likely to start wars). The externalities that Eliezer was referring to might be related to health benefits of marriage, health risks of casual sex (sexually transmitted diseases), and effects of resulting life expectancies on how much effort people put into making the society of 30 years from now a better one (although I'm unsure whether we should worry about these effects). One reason for the asymmetry may be the difference in time and effort needed to determine whether the other person is lying. A women has few cheap and reliable ways to determine whether a man who promises to be a life partner will change his mind next year, but a man can cheaply detect that a women who asks for a one-night stand and then attempts to get romance has deceived him.
A surplus of men does create concerns, it’s just that those concerns take different forms (e.g. concerns that societies with a high male to female ratio have more violence and are more likely to start wars).
The externalities that Eliezer was referring to might be related to health benefits of marriage, health risks of casual sex (sexually transmitted diseases), and effects of resulting life expectancies on how much effort people put into making the society of 30 years from now a better one (although I’m unsure whether we should worry about these effects).

]]> By: John B. Chilton http://www.overcomingbias.com/2007/03/romantic_predat.html#comment-421442 John B. Chilton Mon, 05 Mar 2007 03:53:44 +0000 http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2007/03/romantic-predators.html#comment-421442 For similar reasons polygyny is <a href="http://emirateseconomist.blogspot.com/2006/04/produce-of-polygyny-what-does-polygyny.html" rel="nofollow">good for women</a>. For similar reasons polygyny is good for women.

]]>