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	<title>Comments on: Learn From Politicians’ Personal Failings</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.overcomingbias.com/2007/03/learn-from-politicians%e2%80%99-personal-failings.html/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2007/03/learn-from-politicians%e2%80%99-personal-failings.html</link>
	<description>Overcoming Bias is economist Robin Hanson’s blog, on honesty, signaling, disagreement, forecasting, and the far future.</description>
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		<title>By: John Doe</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2007/03/learn-from-politicians%e2%80%99-personal-failings.html#comment-421251</link>
		<dc:creator>John Doe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Mar 2007 15:00:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2007/03/learn-from-politicians%e2%80%99-personal-failings.html#comment-421251</guid>
		<description>Even assuming that everything Gore does is &quot;carbon-neutral&quot; in any meaningful sense, he&#039;s still a raging hypocrite.  If he really cares about saving the planet, he could live like a normal American (using X amount of energy), buy 20X worth of carbon offsets, and then he&#039;d actually be doing something to offset the carbon overusage that (he claims) is the greatest moral crisis that civilization has ever faced.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Even assuming that everything Gore does is &#8220;carbon-neutral&#8221; in any meaningful sense, he&#8217;s still a raging hypocrite.  If he really cares about saving the planet, he could live like a normal American (using X amount of energy), buy 20X worth of carbon offsets, and then he&#8217;d actually be doing something to offset the carbon overusage that (he claims) is the greatest moral crisis that civilization has ever faced.</p>
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		<title>By: Marcus</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2007/03/learn-from-politicians%e2%80%99-personal-failings.html#comment-421250</link>
		<dc:creator>Marcus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Mar 2007 13:34:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2007/03/learn-from-politicians%e2%80%99-personal-failings.html#comment-421250</guid>
		<description>Evidently that is the case:

http://www.generationim.com/news/memberships.html

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Evidently that is the case:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.generationim.com/news/memberships.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.generationim.com/news/memberships.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Alex</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2007/03/learn-from-politicians%e2%80%99-personal-failings.html#comment-421249</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Mar 2007 10:53:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2007/03/learn-from-politicians%e2%80%99-personal-failings.html#comment-421249</guid>
		<description>The &quot;Gore has ownership in the company&quot; thing is, frankly, intellectually dishonest. Carbon credits are issued as part of emissions trading schemes.  Owners of these securities can either use their right to release CO2, sell the permit on, or &quot;retire&quot; it - that is, remove it from circulation permanently. Gore&#039;s company buys carbon dioxide permits in the market and retires them, thus reducing the total pool of CO2 permits and increasing their price. Effectively, he is paying a voluntary tax.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The &#8220;Gore has ownership in the company&#8221; thing is, frankly, intellectually dishonest. Carbon credits are issued as part of emissions trading schemes.  Owners of these securities can either use their right to release CO2, sell the permit on, or &#8220;retire&#8221; it &#8211; that is, remove it from circulation permanently. Gore&#8217;s company buys carbon dioxide permits in the market and retires them, thus reducing the total pool of CO2 permits and increasing their price. Effectively, he is paying a voluntary tax.</p>
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		<title>By: Bruce G Charlton</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2007/03/learn-from-politicians%e2%80%99-personal-failings.html#comment-421248</link>
		<dc:creator>Bruce G Charlton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Mar 2007 06:11:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2007/03/learn-from-politicians%e2%80%99-personal-failings.html#comment-421248</guid>
		<description>I think the Gore situation is most telling because it shows the flimisiness of the policies he advocates - their perverse incentives.

In the UK there are periodic hypocrisy scandals on the left related to private schools - Labour party ministers generally advocate state schooling for all, and policies that give government education administrators exclusive right to allocate children between schools; but these same labour members of parliament sometimes themselves exercise the very &#039;parental choice&#039; they try to prevent by their policies, and send their own children to private schools.

Universal compulsory state education is a policy which demands that politicians &#039;set a good example&#039; by operating in defiance of incentives which apply not just to these politicians but to all parents. And the parental incentives to educate their kids well are so strong that leftish politicans will risk careers and political damage to pursue these interests.

The hypocrisy debate about Al Gore is an irrelevant distraction, the point is what the inconsistency tells us about the incentive structure of his policies.

Any policy which demands that politicians or nations &#039;set a good example&#039; is a policy with serious problems of perverse incentives. The same applies to Gore&#039;s policies in relation to global climate. The incentive - both for individuals and nations - is simply to break the rules, and not get caught.

And if you do get caught, to avoid or minimize the punishment.

There is no incentive genuinely to comply.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the Gore situation is most telling because it shows the flimisiness of the policies he advocates &#8211; their perverse incentives.</p>
<p>In the UK there are periodic hypocrisy scandals on the left related to private schools &#8211; Labour party ministers generally advocate state schooling for all, and policies that give government education administrators exclusive right to allocate children between schools; but these same labour members of parliament sometimes themselves exercise the very &#8216;parental choice&#8217; they try to prevent by their policies, and send their own children to private schools.</p>
<p>Universal compulsory state education is a policy which demands that politicians &#8216;set a good example&#8217; by operating in defiance of incentives which apply not just to these politicians but to all parents. And the parental incentives to educate their kids well are so strong that leftish politicans will risk careers and political damage to pursue these interests.</p>
<p>The hypocrisy debate about Al Gore is an irrelevant distraction, the point is what the inconsistency tells us about the incentive structure of his policies.</p>
<p>Any policy which demands that politicians or nations &#8216;set a good example&#8217; is a policy with serious problems of perverse incentives. The same applies to Gore&#8217;s policies in relation to global climate. The incentive &#8211; both for individuals and nations &#8211; is simply to break the rules, and not get caught.</p>
<p>And if you do get caught, to avoid or minimize the punishment.</p>
<p>There is no incentive genuinely to comply.</p>
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		<title>By: Eliezer Yudkowsky</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2007/03/learn-from-politicians%e2%80%99-personal-failings.html#comment-421247</link>
		<dc:creator>Eliezer Yudkowsky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Mar 2007 05:07:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2007/03/learn-from-politicians%e2%80%99-personal-failings.html#comment-421247</guid>
		<description>Marcus, where does Gore&#039;s company get the credits from?
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Marcus, where does Gore&#8217;s company get the credits from?</p>
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		<title>By: Marcus</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2007/03/learn-from-politicians%e2%80%99-personal-failings.html#comment-421246</link>
		<dc:creator>Marcus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Mar 2007 04:06:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2007/03/learn-from-politicians%e2%80%99-personal-failings.html#comment-421246</guid>
		<description>As was already stated in the previous comment, Gore buys his carbon credits from his own company which then turns around and invests it.  He is simply moving money from his left hand to his right hand.

I, on yet another hand, think it is important.  Not to bash Gore but to ask a question.

Let&#039;s compare at two possible scenarios:

1) You have $100 and decide to give it away (ie. buy carbon credits).  You start with $100 of influence in the world, decide who to give it to and now have no influence.  You hope who you gave it to does something good with it.  Next week, you start all over again.

This is what Gore wants &lt;i&gt;you&lt;/i&gt; to do.

2) You have $100 and decide to invest it.  You start with $100 of influence in the world, decide who to invest it in and now still have $100 of influence in the world.  Next week, you add $100 to it and now you have $200 of influence in the world (excluding market fluctuations of course).  Later, if you decide the people you&#039;ve invested in don&#039;t live up to your high standards you can take it away from them and invest it in someone else.

This is what Gore does.

Now the question is, why doesn&#039;t Gore preach what he practices?

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As was already stated in the previous comment, Gore buys his carbon credits from his own company which then turns around and invests it.  He is simply moving money from his left hand to his right hand.</p>
<p>I, on yet another hand, think it is important.  Not to bash Gore but to ask a question.</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s compare at two possible scenarios:</p>
<p>1) You have $100 and decide to give it away (ie. buy carbon credits).  You start with $100 of influence in the world, decide who to give it to and now have no influence.  You hope who you gave it to does something good with it.  Next week, you start all over again.</p>
<p>This is what Gore wants <i>you</i> to do.</p>
<p>2) You have $100 and decide to invest it.  You start with $100 of influence in the world, decide who to invest it in and now still have $100 of influence in the world.  Next week, you add $100 to it and now you have $200 of influence in the world (excluding market fluctuations of course).  Later, if you decide the people you&#8217;ve invested in don&#8217;t live up to your high standards you can take it away from them and invest it in someone else.</p>
<p>This is what Gore does.</p>
<p>Now the question is, why doesn&#8217;t Gore preach what he practices?</p>
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		<title>By: EconLog</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2007/03/learn-from-politicians%e2%80%99-personal-failings.html#comment-421252</link>
		<dc:creator>EconLog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Mar 2007 00:11:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2007/03/learn-from-politicians%e2%80%99-personal-failings.html#comment-421252</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Bayesian Analysis of Hypocrisy&lt;/strong&gt;

Hanson and Balan aren&#039;t the only sharp tacks at Overcoming Bias: Politicians want voters to have a positively-biased view of...
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Bayesian Analysis of Hypocrisy</strong></p>
<p>Hanson and Balan aren&#8217;t the only sharp tacks at Overcoming Bias: Politicians want voters to have a positively-biased view of&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: TGGP</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2007/03/learn-from-politicians%e2%80%99-personal-failings.html#comment-421245</link>
		<dc:creator>TGGP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Mar 2007 02:16:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2007/03/learn-from-politicians%e2%80%99-personal-failings.html#comment-421245</guid>
		<description>Gore has ownership in the company he buys carbon credits from. I don&#039;t know whether or not he should be considered a hypocrite, but like others I don&#039;t think it matters much. It makes for good ad hominem arguments but it doesn&#039;t have any bearing on the argument this is a proxy for: what should or should not be done about global warming. I haven&#039;t read Jeremy Lott&#039;s &quot;In Defense of Hypocrisy&quot; yet, but I agree with the point he has made that when you are accusing your opponents of hypocrisy you are essentially conceding there is virtue in what they say, because otherwise you would be attacking that rather than them. Most people now remember &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.affbrainwash.com/archives/021250.php&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Jesus&lt;/a&gt; accusing the Pharisees and others who flaunted their piety of hypocrisy, but he was also up-front about their advocating a lot of correct things and essentially said &quot;Do as they say, not as they do&quot;.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gore has ownership in the company he buys carbon credits from. I don&#8217;t know whether or not he should be considered a hypocrite, but like others I don&#8217;t think it matters much. It makes for good ad hominem arguments but it doesn&#8217;t have any bearing on the argument this is a proxy for: what should or should not be done about global warming. I haven&#8217;t read Jeremy Lott&#8217;s &#8220;In Defense of Hypocrisy&#8221; yet, but I agree with the point he has made that when you are accusing your opponents of hypocrisy you are essentially conceding there is virtue in what they say, because otherwise you would be attacking that rather than them. Most people now remember <a href="http://www.affbrainwash.com/archives/021250.php" rel="nofollow">Jesus</a> accusing the Pharisees and others who flaunted their piety of hypocrisy, but he was also up-front about their advocating a lot of correct things and essentially said &#8220;Do as they say, not as they do&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: University Update</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2007/03/learn-from-politicians%e2%80%99-personal-failings.html#comment-421253</link>
		<dc:creator>University Update</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Mar 2007 00:16:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2007/03/learn-from-politicians%e2%80%99-personal-failings.html#comment-421253</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Learn From Politicians’ Personal Failings&lt;/strong&gt;


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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Learn From Politicians’ Personal Failings</strong></p>
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		<title>By: Hal Finney</title>
		<link>http://www.overcomingbias.com/2007/03/learn-from-politicians%e2%80%99-personal-failings.html#comment-421244</link>
		<dc:creator>Hal Finney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Mar 2007 00:07:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2007/03/learn-from-politicians%e2%80%99-personal-failings.html#comment-421244</guid>
		<description>A good example of a wealthy environmentalist who really lives what he preaches is actor Ed Begley, Jr., who has a TV show on the HGTV network showing his lifestyle. He lives in a very modest bungalow in an average part of town, has covered the roof with solar panels, rides his bike or drives his electric car when possible, otherwise his hybrid, uses recycled materials, etc. Now, all this stuff costs a fortune and the average guy would have no prayer of being able to afford this kind of lifestyle. But Begley is definitely putting his money where his mouth is.

Gore is probably at least ten times richer than Begley, and I&#039;m sure his house is ten times bigger. I can&#039;t imagine Al clambering up on the roof of stately Gore Manor to scrub off the solar panels the way Begley does.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A good example of a wealthy environmentalist who really lives what he preaches is actor Ed Begley, Jr., who has a TV show on the HGTV network showing his lifestyle. He lives in a very modest bungalow in an average part of town, has covered the roof with solar panels, rides his bike or drives his electric car when possible, otherwise his hybrid, uses recycled materials, etc. Now, all this stuff costs a fortune and the average guy would have no prayer of being able to afford this kind of lifestyle. But Begley is definitely putting his money where his mouth is.</p>
<p>Gore is probably at least ten times richer than Begley, and I&#8217;m sure his house is ten times bigger. I can&#8217;t imagine Al clambering up on the roof of stately Gore Manor to scrub off the solar panels the way Begley does.</p>
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