Comments on: What Insight in Innocence? http://www.overcomingbias.com/2007/01/what_insight_in.html Overcoming Bias is economist Robin Hanson’s blog, on honesty, signaling, disagreement, forecasting, and the far future. Sat, 11 Feb 2012 23:23:58 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.3 By: Robin Hanson http://www.overcomingbias.com/2007/01/what_insight_in.html#comment-422512 Robin Hanson Tue, 06 Feb 2007 23:47:24 +0000 http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2007/01/what-insight-in-innocence.html#comment-422512 Chris, I worry about the tendency to take any argument one doesn't like, pretend that it claims logical certainty of its conclusions, and then label that argument a "fallacy" because it cannot deliver logical certainty. Chris, I worry about the tendency to take any argument one doesn’t like, pretend that it claims logical certainty of its conclusions, and then label that argument a “fallacy” because it cannot deliver logical certainty.

]]> By: Chris Yi http://www.overcomingbias.com/2007/01/what_insight_in.html#comment-422511 Chris Yi Tue, 06 Feb 2007 21:25:21 +0000 http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2007/01/what-insight-in-innocence.html#comment-422511 Oh, and I forgot to mention the point that was perhaps germane to the post: appealing to innocence might be a sub-fallacy of appeal to that which is "natural". Oh, and I forgot to mention the point that was perhaps germane to the post: appealing to innocence might be a sub-fallacy of appeal to that which is “natural”.

]]> By: Chris Yi http://www.overcomingbias.com/2007/01/what_insight_in.html#comment-422510 Chris Yi Tue, 06 Feb 2007 21:15:08 +0000 http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2007/01/what-insight-in-innocence.html#comment-422510 One can actually search for the logical fallacy that has been humorously named "argumentum ad nazium" or "reductio ad Hitlerum". One can actually search for the logical fallacy that has been humorously named “argumentum ad nazium” or “reductio ad Hitlerum”.

]]> By: anon http://www.overcomingbias.com/2007/01/what_insight_in.html#comment-422509 anon Sun, 28 Jan 2007 02:35:25 +0000 http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2007/01/what-insight-in-innocence.html#comment-422509 i understand that. my point is that there are certain circumstances, such as the one you use, in which amount of experience can't tell you anything about the validity of a moral claim. i understand that. my point is that there are certain circumstances, such as the one you use, in which amount of experience can’t tell you anything about the validity of a moral claim.

]]> By: Robin Hanson http://www.overcomingbias.com/2007/01/what_insight_in.html#comment-422508 Robin Hanson Sat, 27 Jan 2007 23:58:15 +0000 http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2007/01/what-insight-in-innocence.html#comment-422508 Anon, I accepted they way the debate was framed by the review I quote, as my purpose was to consider it as an example of a larger issue. Anon, I accepted they way the debate was framed by the review I quote, as my purpose was to consider it as an example of a larger issue.

]]> By: anon http://www.overcomingbias.com/2007/01/what_insight_in.html#comment-422507 anon Sat, 27 Jan 2007 23:51:14 +0000 http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2007/01/what-insight-in-innocence.html#comment-422507 many (though not all) vegetarians think of their decision as a personal choice and do not care about imposing their lifestyle on others. and i'd guess the average slaughterhouse worker doesn't have any particularly strong feelings against those who choose vegetarianism. you are assuming here that the question over the morality of vegetarianism is conditioned by experience, and thus that people with experience of killing animals have a fuller perspective on the matter than those without. my point is that it is strange to assume that the 'innocence' or inexperience of vegetarians means that their choice is somehow less informed when in fact it is likely that the slaughterhouse worker has his mind made up before he decides to work there. many (though not all) vegetarians think of their decision as a personal choice and do not care about imposing their lifestyle on others. and i’d guess the average slaughterhouse worker doesn’t have any particularly strong feelings against those who choose vegetarianism.

you are assuming here that the question over the morality of vegetarianism is conditioned by experience, and thus that people with experience of killing animals have a fuller perspective on the matter than those without. my point is that it is strange to assume that the ‘innocence’ or inexperience of vegetarians means that their choice is somehow less informed when in fact it is likely that the slaughterhouse worker has his mind made up before he decides to work there.

]]> By: Robin Hanson http://www.overcomingbias.com/2007/01/what_insight_in.html#comment-422506 Robin Hanson Sat, 27 Jan 2007 23:38:04 +0000 http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2007/01/what-insight-in-innocence.html#comment-422506 anon, both sides in this dispute do seem to assume there is a common truth that they are disputing. If you took a third side that disagrees with them both, I'll bet you come up with bias theories to explain why they disagree with you. Sure there might be selection of people who work in slaughterhouses, but there will also be selection of people who become vegetarian; not sure if this favors any particular side. anon, both sides in this dispute do seem to assume there is a common truth that they are disputing. If you took a third side that disagrees with them both, I’ll bet you come up with bias theories to explain why they disagree with you. Sure there might be selection of people who work in slaughterhouses, but there will also be selection of people who become vegetarian; not sure if this favors any particular side.

]]> By: anon http://www.overcomingbias.com/2007/01/what_insight_in.html#comment-422505 anon Sat, 27 Jan 2007 22:46:35 +0000 http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2007/01/what-insight-in-innocence.html#comment-422505 robin, it seems that you are suggesting that there is an objective moral truth about vegetarianism depending purely on information. i think i would have to take issue with this from the outset. furthermore, doesn't it seem obvious to you that the people who would choose to work in slaughterhouses would be less predisposed to believing in the morality of vegetarianism than the average vegetarian? if so, why should we trust their moral judgment about vegetarianism any more than anyone else's? robin, it seems that you are suggesting that there is an objective moral truth about vegetarianism depending purely on information. i think i would have to take issue with this from the outset.

furthermore, doesn’t it seem obvious to you that the people who would choose to work in slaughterhouses would be less predisposed to believing in the morality of vegetarianism than the average vegetarian? if so, why should we trust their moral judgment about vegetarianism any more than anyone else’s?

]]> By: Robin Hanson http://www.overcomingbias.com/2007/01/what_insight_in.html#comment-422504 Robin Hanson Sat, 27 Jan 2007 02:25:02 +0000 http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2007/01/what-insight-in-innocence.html#comment-422504 Nato, you lost me. Bob, surely we won't want to be against everything that Hitler was for. Nato, you lost me.

Bob, surely we won’t want to be against everything that Hitler was for.

]]> By: pdf23ds http://www.overcomingbias.com/2007/01/what_insight_in.html#comment-422503 pdf23ds Sat, 27 Jan 2007 01:50:30 +0000 http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2007/01/what-insight-in-innocence.html#comment-422503 That reminds me. Why is it that many parents don't like their kids to swear, even when they themselves swear regularly in adult company? That reminds me. Why is it that many parents don’t like their kids to swear, even when they themselves swear regularly in adult company?

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