Comments on: Discussions of Bias in answers to the Edge 2007 Question http://www.overcomingbias.com/2007/01/media_biases_us.html Overcoming Bias is economist Robin Hanson’s blog, on honesty, signaling, disagreement, forecasting, and the far future. Sat, 11 Feb 2012 23:23:58 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.3 By: Robin Hanson http://www.overcomingbias.com/2007/01/media_biases_us.html#comment-423183 Robin Hanson Wed, 03 Jan 2007 21:12:10 +0000 http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2007/01/discussions-of-bias-in-answers-to-the-edge-2007-question.html#comment-423183 The claimed media bias assumes that what people want about news is useful information about overall trends. What if they just want to be entertained, or to collect fun stories to tell others? The claimed media bias assumes that what people want about news is useful information about overall trends. What if they just want to be entertained, or to collect fun stories to tell others?

]]> By: Nicholas Shackel http://www.overcomingbias.com/2007/01/media_biases_us.html#comment-423182 Nicholas Shackel Wed, 03 Jan 2007 17:10:35 +0000 http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2007/01/discussions-of-bias-in-answers-to-the-edge-2007-question.html#comment-423182 Hal: Fair enough, up to a point. I contrasted scientific *beliefs*, not scientific speculations, with beliefs in *political ideologies*. To take the specific contrast your raised, evolutionists are entitled to think that creationism is false, but no such confidence is warranted by liberals over conservatives, or vice versa. "evolution has a considerable political and ideological component" Really? What is that, then? I don't think that *any* non-normative claim about the natural facts has *any* political and ideological *component* (they might have political and ideological *implications*, if the ought implies can principle is true, but that is a wholly different matter). Hal: Fair enough, up to a point. I contrasted scientific *beliefs*, not scientific speculations, with beliefs in *political ideologies*. To take the specific contrast your raised, evolutionists are entitled to think that creationism is false, but no such confidence is warranted by liberals over conservatives, or vice versa.

“evolution has a considerable political and ideological component” Really? What is that, then? I don’t think that *any* non-normative claim about the natural facts has *any* political and ideological *component* (they might have political and ideological *implications*, if the ought implies can principle is true, but that is a wholly different matter).

]]> By: Hal Finney http://www.overcomingbias.com/2007/01/media_biases_us.html#comment-423181 Hal Finney Wed, 03 Jan 2007 07:17:11 +0000 http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2007/01/discussions-of-bias-in-answers-to-the-edge-2007-question.html#comment-423181 Nicholas, I don't think we can make general statements about the probability of political vs scientific beliefs. Scientific issues run the gamut from well established to completely unknown. And there is considerable overlap between the two. Many political and ideological beliefs relate to economic policy, human psychology, sociology, and other areas amenable to scientific study. In fact in the U.S. even a quintessentially scientific issue like evolution has a considerable political and ideological component. So I don't think we can easily distinguish the two kinds of issues in terms of how confident we can be. Nicholas, I don’t think we can make general statements about the probability of political vs scientific beliefs. Scientific issues run the gamut from well established to completely unknown. And there is considerable overlap between the two. Many political and ideological beliefs relate to economic policy, human psychology, sociology, and other areas amenable to scientific study. In fact in the U.S. even a quintessentially scientific issue like evolution has a considerable political and ideological component. So I don’t think we can easily distinguish the two kinds of issues in terms of how confident we can be.

]]> By: M Lafferty http://www.overcomingbias.com/2007/01/media_biases_us.html#comment-423180 M Lafferty Tue, 02 Jan 2007 23:26:24 +0000 http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2007/01/discussions-of-bias-in-answers-to-the-edge-2007-question.html#comment-423180 Political ideology, like religion, is very handy when answers are required to questions that defy rational analysis, either because they are very difficult or even inherently unanswerable. Opinions obtained by recourse to ideology may be comforting, and hence serve a purpose, but they are vanishingly unlikely to be true. Perhaps this is the source of the old adage "Never discuss religion or politics": there is simply no rational basis for resolving differences of opinion when discussing these topics. Political ideology, like religion, is very handy when answers are required to questions that defy rational analysis, either because they are very difficult or even inherently unanswerable. Opinions obtained by recourse to ideology may be comforting, and hence serve a purpose, but they are vanishingly unlikely to be true.

Perhaps this is the source of the old adage “Never discuss religion or politics”: there is simply no rational basis for resolving differences of opinion when discussing these topics.

]]> By: Nicholas Shackel http://www.overcomingbias.com/2007/01/media_biases_us.html#comment-423179 Nicholas Shackel Tue, 02 Jan 2007 22:23:49 +0000 http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2007/01/discussions-of-bias-in-answers-to-the-edge-2007-question.html#comment-423179 Hal: are you saying that we are entitled to be as confident in our beliefs in political ideologies as we are in our scientific beliefs? I don't think we are. Hal: are you saying that we are entitled to be as confident in our beliefs in political ideologies as we are in our scientific beliefs? I don’t think we are.

]]> By: TGGP http://www.overcomingbias.com/2007/01/media_biases_us.html#comment-423178 TGGP Tue, 02 Jan 2007 21:12:11 +0000 http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2007/01/discussions-of-bias-in-answers-to-the-edge-2007-question.html#comment-423178 Perhaps we could look for a correlation with IQ and political beliefs. I recall reading that economists outside of academia are supposed to be less leftist than those inside. Bryan Caplan had a post on this topic a while back: http://econlog.econlib.org/archives/2005/04/tabarrok_should.html Perhaps we could look for a correlation with IQ and political beliefs. I recall reading that economists outside of academia are supposed to be less leftist than those inside.

Bryan Caplan had a post on this topic a while back: http://econlog.econlib.org/archives/2005/04/tabarrok_should.html

]]> By: Hal Finney http://www.overcomingbias.com/2007/01/media_biases_us.html#comment-423177 Hal Finney Tue, 02 Jan 2007 20:19:23 +0000 http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2007/01/discussions-of-bias-in-answers-to-the-edge-2007-question.html#comment-423177 I know this is a somewhat controversial point, but it's not always clear when preferences are due to bias. In the case of liberals vs conservatives, the argument goes that academics are smarter than usual, that smarter people are more likely to hold correct views, and that liberalism is a correct view. The mere fact that academics scorn conservatives is not necessarily indication of bias, as the inflammatory analogy to males vs females suggests. Much the same tale could be told about evolutionists vs creationists (except that the creationists wouldn't even be allowed into the room to be laughed at), but that doesn't mean that we attribute that position to bias. I should add that I am in the fortunate position of being able to be agnostic on the liberal/conservative position, since I don't see much relevance of these ideologies to my day to day life. So I'm not taking sides here. I know this is a somewhat controversial point, but it’s not always clear when preferences are due to bias. In the case of liberals vs conservatives, the argument goes that academics are smarter than usual, that smarter people are more likely to hold correct views, and that liberalism is a correct view. The mere fact that academics scorn conservatives is not necessarily indication of bias, as the inflammatory analogy to males vs females suggests. Much the same tale could be told about evolutionists vs creationists (except that the creationists wouldn’t even be allowed into the room to be laughed at), but that doesn’t mean that we attribute that position to bias.

I should add that I am in the fortunate position of being able to be agnostic on the liberal/conservative position, since I don’t see much relevance of these ideologies to my day to day life. So I’m not taking sides here.

]]>