Comments on: Vulcan Logic http://www.overcomingbias.com/2006/12/vulcan_logic.html Overcoming Bias is economist Robin Hanson’s blog, on honesty, signaling, disagreement, forecasting, and the far future. Sat, 11 Feb 2012 22:03:14 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.3 By: Shimon de Valencia http://www.overcomingbias.com/2006/12/vulcan_logic.html#comment-423231 Shimon de Valencia Mon, 26 Jan 2009 04:56:14 +0000 http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2006/12/vulcan-logic.html#comment-423231 The concept of Vulcan logic is also linked to the concept of C'thia - or reality sensing. This is a process of perceiving the universe without preconceptions. In Dzogchen this would be termed 'Natural Great Perception', or in Mahamudra as the natural residing in the alaya (consciousness). Such C'thia does not allow for the interplay of emotions, which is [per se] a reaction to non-real perception. That is the perceiving of events and overlaying a 'judgemen' based upon our emotional reaction to such phenomenon. The Surak saw that this could lead to problems, and actually urged us to 'identify with the other' - 'Do not stab the heart of the other with your spear; For you are he'. This arises from a fundamental understanding that we are all linked via the base field of conscousness, and that all phenomenon [and thus ourselves] are linked via a chain of interdependence. When we link the 'Natural Perception' with the (albeit passive) compassion arising from observing other's as they are - then Vulcan philosophy is imbued with a high degree of compassionate understanding of the other (one of the three supports of IDIC). Where this falls down is when pedant's [Vulcans without any high degree of training] interact with others without the benefit of intensive and long experience in the discipline of C'thia [which is usually mistranslated as logic - you can thank Amanda; Spock's mother for that early boo-boo as an early Vulcan translator]. "Logic, Logic; Logic is the beginning of wisdom...not it's end" Spock - The Undiscovered Country The concept of Vulcan logic is also linked to the concept of C’thia – or reality sensing. This is a process of perceiving the universe without preconceptions. In Dzogchen this would be termed ‘Natural Great Perception’, or in Mahamudra as the natural residing in the alaya (consciousness). Such C’thia does not allow for the interplay of emotions, which is [per se] a reaction to non-real perception. That is the perceiving of events and overlaying a ‘judgemen’ based upon our emotional reaction to such phenomenon. The Surak saw that this could lead to problems, and actually urged us to ‘identify with the other’ – ‘Do not stab the heart of the other with your spear; For you are he’. This arises from a fundamental understanding that we are all linked via the base field of conscousness, and that all phenomenon [and thus ourselves] are linked via a chain of interdependence. When we link the ‘Natural Perception’ with the (albeit passive) compassion arising from observing other’s as they are – then Vulcan philosophy is imbued with a high degree of compassionate understanding of the other (one of the three supports of IDIC). Where this falls down is when pedant’s [Vulcans without any high degree of training] interact with others without the benefit of intensive and long experience in the discipline of C’thia [which is usually mistranslated as logic - you can thank Amanda; Spock's mother for that early boo-boo as an early Vulcan translator]. “Logic, Logic; Logic is the beginning of wisdom…not it’s end” Spock – The Undiscovered Country

]]> By: David J. Balan http://www.overcomingbias.com/2006/12/vulcan_logic.html#comment-423230 David J. Balan Wed, 03 Jan 2007 05:28:52 +0000 http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2006/12/vulcan-logic.html#comment-423230 There is no doubt that our core desires are emotional and not rational, so it doesn't make any sense to think that there could be a "perfectly rational" being. But this need not mean that reason is merely a slave to the passions. Reason in the form of moral philosophy can tell you when you should supress the impulses generated by your passions. Reason can also temper and elevate the passions; you can train yourself to *want* peace more and war less. Plus the exercise of reason offers satisfactions of its own, whether its proving mathematical theorems or doing crossword puzzles, that have no obvious basis in any core emotion. There is no doubt that our core desires are emotional and not rational, so it doesn’t make any sense to think that there could be a “perfectly rational” being. But this need not mean that reason is merely a slave to the passions. Reason in the form of moral philosophy can tell you when you should supress the impulses generated by your passions. Reason can also temper and elevate the passions; you can train yourself to *want* peace more and war less. Plus the exercise of reason offers satisfactions of its own, whether its proving mathematical theorems or doing crossword puzzles, that have no obvious basis in any core emotion.

]]> By: pdf23ds http://www.overcomingbias.com/2006/12/vulcan_logic.html#comment-423229 pdf23ds Sun, 31 Dec 2006 15:54:44 +0000 http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2006/12/vulcan-logic.html#comment-423229 There's a relationship between certain emotions and certain kinds of irrationality. Happiness and optimism are both linked to the overconfidence bias and the illusion of control. Fear is linked to loss-aversion bias. The desire for a certain outcome (which can be motivated by in-group bias) is linked to confirmation and disconfirmation bias. Then there are certain biases that don't have any apparent emotional connection, like the representativeness heuristic, the clustering illusion (seeing cause and effect where none exists), the gambler's fallacy, and the recency effect. I'm not sure there are any emotions that don't affect some kinds of biases, but there might be emotions that are normally elicited in certain situations where the situation doesn't require reasoning that trips any of those biases. There’s a relationship between certain emotions and certain kinds of irrationality. Happiness and optimism are both linked to the overconfidence bias and the illusion of control. Fear is linked to loss-aversion bias. The desire for a certain outcome (which can be motivated by in-group bias) is linked to confirmation and disconfirmation bias. Then there are certain biases that don’t have any apparent emotional connection, like the representativeness heuristic, the clustering illusion (seeing cause and effect where none exists), the gambler’s fallacy, and the recency effect.

I’m not sure there are any emotions that don’t affect some kinds of biases, but there might be emotions that are normally elicited in certain situations where the situation doesn’t require reasoning that trips any of those biases.

]]> By: Robin Hanson http://www.overcomingbias.com/2006/12/vulcan_logic.html#comment-423228 Robin Hanson Sun, 31 Dec 2006 11:32:27 +0000 http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2006/12/vulcan-logic.html#comment-423228 Perhaps it would be good for someone to post a review on the literature regarding the relation on emotional arousal and cognitive bias. I doubt if it as simple as emotional = biased. Perhaps it would be good for someone to post a review on the literature regarding the relation on emotional arousal and cognitive bias. I doubt if it as simple as emotional = biased.

]]> By: Gabriel M. http://www.overcomingbias.com/2006/12/vulcan_logic.html#comment-423227 Gabriel M. Sun, 31 Dec 2006 10:08:53 +0000 http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2006/12/vulcan-logic.html#comment-423227 Vulcans have tradition and their philosopher, I don't remember the name. Objectivism would be a good approximation of sort, in terms of the relation between reason and motivation. -- Prejudices and personal preferences, carefully cast as "rational". Vulcans have tradition and their philosopher, I don’t remember the name.

Objectivism would be a good approximation of sort, in terms of the relation between reason and motivation. — Prejudices and personal preferences, carefully cast as “rational”.

]]> By: Mike Linksvayer http://www.overcomingbias.com/2006/12/vulcan_logic.html#comment-423226 Mike Linksvayer Sun, 31 Dec 2006 08:05:52 +0000 http://prod.ob.trike.com.au/2006/12/vulcan-logic.html#comment-423226 I find the discussion here not about suppressing one's emotions at all but about correcting that which one considers logical and rational but is not. Perhaps there is an emotional analog, but neither would have much to do with "vulcan" logic. It may not bear on the above, but one of the passages from this blog I've found most entertaining pokes fun at naitve Vulcan logic http://www.overcomingbias.com/2006/11/why_truth_and.html (third paragraph from bottom). I find the discussion here not about suppressing one’s emotions at all but about correcting that which one considers logical and rational but is not. Perhaps there is an emotional analog, but neither would have much to do with “vulcan” logic.

It may not bear on the above, but one of the passages from this blog I’ve found most entertaining pokes fun at naitve Vulcan logic http://www.overcomingbias.com/2006/11/why_truth_and.html (third paragraph from bottom).

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